What is Jihad, Seriously, Again??

"Please point me in the direction of a copy of quran and sharia that you believe is right. And I will see if it differs from those I have allready. No compulsion in religion Holy war is the duty of all moslems."

Someone wrote, the above and wants to know, What is Jihad?

The reply I wrote, follows below. If anyone has a better definition or explanation, please feel free to send me
an email or comment below, thankx. The comments are 'screened', like Muslims at an international airport, before posting, so it may take a while before you see your comment.

Reply:

No, there is no "Holy War". That's a Christian evangelical idea. Their words. Jihad simply means striving in the path of God. If someone builds schools, mosques, roads, wells, that's all charity that earns rewards for the person who donates to such projects. It is the best kind of charity, something that benefits for a long time.There are types of jihad, too. Fighting one's own desires, is also jihad. When many people talk about Islam or jihad, all they talk about is "unjust war". War in Islam is for defense.

The Battle of Badr and Battle of Uhud, the two most remembered battles didn't have many deaths or casualties compared to many other wars. The pagans or the Muslims had to go. God favored the Muslims in the end, and Medina was established as a Muslim capital. It took Muhammad, over twenty years of preaching but most of the Arab pagans converted after that. Mekkah was a bloodless victory, in that everyone surrendered, and only the criminals were not released (there was actually one man who went into the Kaabah to escape and he was killed).

The head leader, Abu Jahal had died, and some of the others had already converted before the Fateh al Mekkah, that day, so the rest of their tribe soon followed, like Khalid Ibn Walid, who later converted, but Abu Sufyan another famous person had converted before that, and his wife was HInd, a woman who had hired an assassin to kill the Prophet's uncle Hamza. Despite this, they converted of their own free will when God willed. And became good Muslims.

Another case in point is the Jews and hypocrites in Medina who sided with them, after declaring their Islam, which people always bring up. Why were Jews killed in Medina or evicted? Because they were traitors. Do you want traitors who attack you to be given a free pass?? Do you only HATE Muslims but LOVE traitors?? No. War is just at certain times. Americans will "never forget" 911 but they forgot Iraq's innocent children very quickly. (SOMETIMES SOME) Americans and (SOMETIMES SOME)Christians are some of the worst hypocrites alive today. Muslims don't say that war isn't justified, but they believe that killing innocents is forbidden.

If some Muslims do that, they are the worst criminals. STOP saying (not you personally) that Muslims never say anything when terrorist attacks occur. We are against terrorism and killing of innocents, but when we say that, who is listening?? Oh. No one.. Obviously you still believe the lies about Islam or you wouldn't be asking about "No compulsion in religion". Don't be lazy and do some of your own reading. One book which is pretty good is "The Sealed Nectar". It won't cost you an arm and a leg. It is a biography of the Prophet Muhammad, and tells a lot about the battles, including Badr and Uhud, and why the Jews (traitors) were killed. It won a prize for the best biography in a contest, and was written by an Indian Muslim scholar and translated into English. There are many hadiths showing how kind and generous the Prophet Muhammad was. His character is pure and good, but non-Muslims want to make his character vile and evil. God forbid we should not defend him.

There is no translation that will do justice to the Quran, not just because it's Arabic, but because translators are human beings, and other languages also aren't as great as the Quranic Arabic. English, especially, is a young language, and you can see how it is being destroyed today. But there are some translations that are better than others. The Yusuf Ali one was edited because it had bigger problems than some others.

The Bible has many verses that must be embarrassing for Christians, some people say the same thing about Hadiths. Well, the hadiths aren't the word of God. (There are Hadiths Qudsi, which are God's words revealed to Muhammad, but not part of the Quran). But the majority of hadiths/sayings or traditions are not God's words, and also they were written and compiled after a long time. So they are more like what the Bible is in terms of how long after the events they were collected into books. The bible is also not God's word, so that explains why there are a lot of wrong things in it. No offence to people who read it to study it and get some good out of it. Cherry picking verses is the past-time of the non-Muslims. They do it with their own book and with the Quran (translation of the meaning of the Quran). But many people still say it is one of the best today (if you get the edited version). Learning Arabic is impossible for most people. But it is different when you know some Arabic and can read the original. That being said, the problem isn't even which translation but that people read with a closed mind, and there's no 'medicine' for that, except to ask God to open your heart and mind. Shariah is Islamic law, there is only one "islamic law". There are colleges that teach Usul Fiqh, jurisprudence. They will teach about the way to understand and apply laws. You know, stuff I haven't studied indepth.

There are many non-Muslims in Muslim majority states and they are not all fighting each other. Muslims work with non-Muslims here. We have a fairly peaceful country. The government is fair, and people are free to live and work. There is also one of the oldest Catholic Churches in the ME in our country (I am a citizen now too, as are many people who got their citizenship in the past couple of decades).

Just like any other person studies law, it is studied in Muslim countries, and also some other countries today. There is ijtihad, which is consensus of opinion, where a question is something the scholars today may not know about, such as things that never happened in the past, or for which there is no ruling. In law this is like looking for precedents, and if there aren't any then you derive an opinion from looking at the whole body of works on that subject and using their brains. Judges can be wrong, also when making judgments, and this is not denied. But Islamic law lays a lot of emphasis on proofs, and circumstantial evidence isn't emphasized. Even if a man is found with a knife in his hand at the scene of a stabbing death, doesn't prove his guilt, for example. There was such a case and the judge makes sure that he gets to the truth, if possible, or else the person can't be convicted of murder. In a very old case which happened, a man was actually found not guilty, because it turned out he confessed because he thought none would believe him anyway if he told the truth. He had come upon a murder scene, grabbed the weapon and then been found by people. Later, a man actually confessed, because he was afraid that he would be responsible for the murder of the victim plus the unjust killing of the person who confessed to the killing. I guess stranger things have happened. There *is* no compulsion in religion, so just go about your life like you always have if you have no interest in learning about Islam. Men are responsible for the expenses even when women work. That doesn't mean women marry men for their money, like many people say. Many non-Muslim women also are converting to Islam here, and also men are converting to Islam. There is no forced conversion. People are free to live and work, and they are free to worship wherever they are able to do that. In Canada, Muslims often pray at work, on their break, and it's not against the law. Why do people think freedom of religion is such a difficult concept??

Good day.

I THINK THIS IS ADDED LATER? :

I live in Bahrain, and it's fine, people have recreation and all the many things that they have back home, even many of the same foods, restaurants and fast food places, they may have a church (it varies in the ME from country to country). Not every Christian denomination has a church obviously. But it isn't the responsibility of a government to give land away for every church that some people want. I think the same goes of the masjids (mosques) in non-Muslim countries.I don't object to laws that are meant to protect people, and countries have a right to make such laws. But there are also laws against wrongful oppression of immigrants, etc. It is not only fair, but required that governments treat all their citizens equally and punish the wrongdoers, but not wrongfully convict innocent people or treat people who are not criminals like criminals. All governments, if they abide by the humanitarian laws, will treat citizens and also immigrants, or visa workers with kindness, justice and secure their peaceful existence and human dignity. Unfortunately,that's not always the case, is it? Islam has human rights, and even animal rights. These are binding in the Islamic texts, and are obvious.

[Jane Dughatir] Thanks for reading! Have a nice day/evening :)

(EDITS are in round brackets: when I probably insulted many ppl already I was informed by a friend about the error/mistake and corrected my wrong sentence. I have already apologized on social media. #clickbait #racism)

Early Muslims and Knowledge: No Inquisition in Islamic History

I’m going to touch briefly on a topic which interests many people, that’s the misinformation about Islam regarding Jihad, specifically the “rape or murder” which some claim Islam permits or even encourages.

We can go through the reasons why logically, it doesn’t make sense for people who want to preach a religion to the conquered population, why it would be counterproductive to rape or pillage and destroy, etc. and then determine that to save the same population or their children at least from Hellfire, that the “call” to their religion will follow such crimes against humanity. It doesn’t make sense on any level.

Just because rape and pillage were the modus operandi of the non-Muslim Arabs (many of whom became Muslims later) doesn’t mean that God or the Prophet of God would permit those things; nor is there any proof of this claim just because the non-believers assert that such things happened. In the past, it was the Christians who said the same thing about Muslims - because that was their propaganda to keep women and children afraid, and justify the men’s slaughter, as well as rape of the Muslim (or the followers of other religions) women. The same thing happened this half century in Bosnia Herzegovina; all sides claimed such things happened on a wide scale, whereas there was probably a significant amount of such crimes perpetrated by only one side in the conflict there. And because of the secular nature of European Muslims, in general and their disregard for God’s law or Allah’s commands, men on all sides acted with disregard for human rights, and their actions were the result of reactions to the events and the not surprising but still wrong need to seek revenge by committing the same atrocities they witnessed in their own villages or happening to their own families and closest friends and neighbors.

Genghis Khan didn’t instruct his armies to be kind to people whom they encountered, but to kill everyone, to torture them, to cut heads and pile high pyramids of severed heads. This is because Genghis Khan didn’t want to convert anyone to his religion. He wanted to cause slaughter and mayhem; he lived his entire life and career as the tyrannical leader of his nation satisfying his own bloodlust.

If you study many other worldly leaders who committed genocide, Hitler, etc. they didn’t try to convert others to their religion or way of thinking. They killed to eliminate their enemies, raped and tortured to put fear of themselves in the enemy, and basically were lunatics not guided by any ethos of tolerance or humanitarianism.

Islam on the other hand, proposed many good things while forbidding evil; guiding principles of justice and basic rights and comprehensive change took place in a quarter of a century, which didn’t just serve to alter the course of the Arab nations which accepted Islam, but continued to provide impetus for change outside of the Islamic Empire as well. Scientific investigation owed it to the early Muslims and the belief that education in all positive fields was encouraged by the Quran and the Prophetic sayings - nor was there sex discrimination or bias as far as the pursuit of knowledge. Earlier in history, the non-Muslims never said that Muslims didn’t open doors to education or the pursuit of knowledge, they were well aware that the scientific method and open-mindedness were the Muslims’ starting point to structured learning and the Muslim Universities.

The overall condition of people in the era of Muhammad was characterized by change. As well, the precedent of a new consciousness and desire for learning set early on continued to be the impetus for philosophy and other studies which developed much later, and how and why technology also developed. When Christianity began to stagnate, the Islamic quest for more knowledge and inventiveness were beginning their stride; how can the enemies of Islam among the Christians today accuse Islam of stagnation? In fact, Islam and Muslims never had an inquisition of the general community of scientific or exploratory minds; nor of other religions. The doctrine also didn’t change to suit the whims of any leader in particular who wished to pursue a course of action or philosophy which ran counter to the true doctrines of Islam; if they did, they had many outspoken critics; even al-Hajjaj was opposed so that he executed many of his opposition, but the large body of knowledge and the population of learned Muslims could not all be conquered by hit squads of paid soldiers or a Stalin style leadership. Eventually the oppressors are either assassinated by the population or more often eliminated by other power hungry elite in his own circle or government. As with all Empires, Islam also had its decline when the people didn’t deserve the kind of leaders of the past who upheld the Islamic Sharia. If the leaders are corrupt, no doubt the population also has been led astray by satanic whims and evil practices, godlessness and disregard for religion or goodness. It’s noteworthy that the Quran was one constant in life that could not be effaced, nor did it ever succumb to change.

Yes, Christians eventually threw off the vestiges of their iniquitous past, instead adopting secularism, or democracy, and the religion and state split was more than complete by the turn of this century. But it took a long time. Now the so-called advanced nations and the spokespeople for democracy, or the New world order, or humanitarianism say that they cannot wait 500 years for Islam to likewise throw off the yoke of Islamic government, or the sharia, and quickly adopt any Western or modern style of government. But Islam never was in need of reformation the way that Christianity was; that’s because unlike Christianity, Islam didn’t become corrupt; it wasn’t changed, and the laws of Islam are the basic progressive and just laws which Muslims always enjoyed and which are universal even today; International jurisprudence, (international) maritime law, and Islam’s family law, just distribution in the laws of inheritance (based not on gender equality alone, but a just distribution according to men’s and women’s different responsibilities) etc. are all based on or part of the Islamic Sharia. Why fix something if it’s not broken?

If you read throughout my blog, you’ll see that it isn’t an uphill battle to defend the teachings of Islam and the Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah unto him. On the contrary, the sources indicate that Islam has and always will be the one constant in history, since Allah revealed His will to the desert Arabs, and from there, it has always been obvious that Islam is a force to be reckoned with and at the same time, is an illuminating light, what humanity can (and should eventually) agree on, at its core is a source of guidance to what is good and right.

http://islamicvoice.com/february.99/comparative.htm#ULT

Promotion - teach Islam with Yusuf Estes original "copyrighted" material

Islamnewsroom.com

This is an exclusive from the original website of Yusuf Estes, the best original argument for why Islam is the most Peaceful religion on Earth today. Don’t be fooled. Read on. Read the entire article, may Allah/God make your heart at ease with this religion and its people. Peace.

(Original version follows)                                                                                                                  J. D-N

What Does Islam Say?

Does it say 'Kill Infidels?' (no)

From "Answering Attacks Against Islam" - by yusuf estes

Question:

How [Do]We Answer Harsh Question and attacks against Islam?

Answer: Begin with the Name of Allah - and ask Him to send peace and blessings upon Muhammad, peace be upon him. And Remember "Allahu 'Alim" - it is only Allah who is the True Knower of all Things.

Someone said, "Your Quran says to kill all the Jews and Christians.."

This is absolutely not true and it is quite easy to prove.

The Quran still exists today just as it did at the time of the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. You see, he never did learn how to read or write, so he memorized the entire Quran from the angel Gabriel (Jibril in Arabic) and then he passed on this recition (Quran) to his companions and they in turn passed it on to the next generation and this practice continues even today, reciting by memory and then passing it on to the next generations. And by the way, it is exactly the same from anywhere it is recited in the world.

We know the Quran orders believers to fight in combat against those who are the oppressers, aggressors and terrorists and those who are assaulting and killing the innocent men, women and chldren. But it gives out clear orders - NOT TO Fight against those who are not fighting against you...

Now here is an example of how you might answer those folks with the harsh questions:

First say, "Thank you for your interest in Islam and the Muslims"

Continue, "It is our duty and privilege to present the truth and proof about Islam and what it represents. We desire to clear up misconceptions and misunderstandings about Islam to help others see the true message that came with all of the prophets from Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, peace be upon them all."

Now be sure to mention this important point:

"The message is: Laa elaha illa lah (none has the right to be worshipped except Allah)."

Now say,

"And before I begin to answer the question, I would like to ask you a question - 'If you hear something you like in the answer or something that really makes sense to you - then are you prepared(sic) to accept the message of worshipping your Lord without any partners?"

"After all, Islam is really all about this one subject anyway."

Then go to the next important area (misconceptions):

"Now let us correct some mistakes in the 'question' itself. There is not such a meaning in the Quran, ordering or even permitting the Muslims to ever attack innocent people whether they are Christians, Jews, or any other faith for that matter.

Combat is only ordered against those who are attacking or killing the innocent Muslims or fighting against the established Muslim state.

Read...

________________________________________________________

Now here is the answer -

The word used most often in Quran, that is so often mistranslated as kill; slay; or slaughter is not jihad, it is qital and if you look to the Arabic, you will quickly understand this word in today's usage would clearly be combat.

Naturally, just as here in the U.S. we must stand up for righteousness and strive to prevent oppression, aggression and tyranny. This is the proper usage and understanding for this term, as you will discover while passing through the tafseer and explanations by top scholars today.

Scholars of Quran tell us the verses dealing with this topic are specific and not intended to imply a general meaning for just anyone to decide to go around combating non-Muslims. The early Muslims had been driven out of their homes and turned out into the desert to starve. After finally, relocating in Medina, verses came in Quran instructing them to make hajj (pilgrimage) back to Makkah. Finding their way blocked and after several years of making agreements and treaties that the others continually broke, the Muslims were at last, told they could now fight in combat against the tyrants who had so horribly mistreated and abused them in the past. However, this would only be acceptable to Allah if they remained within very specific limitations. The word "qital" in Arabic in this instance refers to "combat" rather than what some have used "kill" because the word "kill" is far to general, while the word "combat" appropriately describes what is intended by the usage in this passage. Allah Knows Best.

It should also be noted the usage of the word "fitnah" in the same verse denotes a horrible condition, not unlike what we find today when there is terrorism and tyranny against the moral and just society at large. It would be easy to properly understand the meaning as, "Engage them in combat, even killing them, until the state of "fitnah" (terrorism) no longer exists in the society and people are free to worship Allah by their choice."

We can see these verse are not designed to promote terrorism, but rather these are very orders from Above to the Muslims to be the first of those who stand out aggressively against all forms of terrorism and oppression.

Once this is in place, there really isn't a question anymore, due to the necessity as we see today, to prevent and subdue enemies of freedom, liberty and justice. In other words, we could easily say Allah ordered believers in the Quran to wage combat against terrorism - 14 centuries ago. And the "struggle against oppression, terrorism and tyranny" in the Arabic language, it is called, "Jihad."

I tell them,

"Islam declared the WAR ON TERRORISM - over 1,400 years ago!"

________________________________________________________

Details: read explanation of Quran for verses, 2:189-193 at: www.QTafsir.com

It is time to visit our website and download or bookmark our free copy of translation of Quran... First thing you do is download the Quran from our site at:

www.allahsquran.com/goodies/free.php

Then go to the verse in question and read the Arabic, then the English, then the transliteration (making the sounds with English letters). Then compare the meaning to what you have pronounced.

Here are a few of the misquoted verses:

Verses containing the word "Qital" (fighting in combat)

2.190 Fight (in combat) in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress.

2.191 And kill them (in combat) wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and

2.193 Fight them (in combat) until there is no more 'fitnah' [agression, oppression and terrorism] and worship is allowed for Allah.

2.216 Fighting (in combat) has been enjoined upon you while it is hateful to you. But perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and

2.217 They ask you about the sacred month – about fighting (in combat) therein. Say, "Fighting therein is great [sin],

2.244 And fight (in combat) in the cause of Allah and know that Allah is Hearing and Knowing.

2.246 Have you not considered the assembly of the Children of Israel after [the time of] Moses when they said to a prophet of theirs, "Send to us a king, and we will fight (in combat) in the way of Allah"?

3.13 Already there has been for you a sign in the two armies which met [in combat in Badr] – one fighting (in combat)

3.111 They will not harm you except for [some] annoyance. And if they fight you (in combat) , they will show you their backs;

3.142 Or do you think that you will enter Paradise while Allah has not yet made evident those of you who fight (in combat) in His cause and

3.156 O you who have believed, do not be like those who disbelieved and said about their brothers when they traveled through the land or went out to fight (in combat) , "If they

3.167 And that He might make evident those who are hypocrites. For it was said to them, "Come, fight (in combat) in the way of Allah or

4.74 So let those fight (in combat) in the cause of Allah who sell the life of this world for the Hereafter. And he who fights in the cause of Allah

4.75 And what is [the matter] with you that you do not fight (in combat) in the cause of Allah

4.76 Those who believe fight (in combat) in the cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the cause of taghūt. So fight against the allies of Satan.

4.77 Have you not seen those who were told, "Restrain your hands [from fighting] and establish prayer and give zakah"? But then when fighting (in combat) was ordained for them, at once a party of them feared men as they fear Allah or with

4.84: So fight (in combat), in the cause of Allah; you are not held responsible except for yourself. And encourage the believers

4.90: Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you (in combat) or fighting their own people..

4.94: O you who have believed, when you go forth [to fight (in combat)] in the cause of Allah, investigate; and do not say to one who gives you [a greeting of] peace "You are not a believer,"

5.24 : They said, "O Moses, indeed we will not enter it, ever, as long as they are within it; so go, you and your Lord, and fight (in combat). Indeed,

8.39 : And fight them (in combat) until there is no fitnah [agression, oppression & terrorism] and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease – then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do.

• 8.65: O Prophet, urge the believers to combat. If there are among you twenty (who are) steadfast, they will overcome two hundred...

• 8.74: But those who have believed and emigrated and fought in the cause of Allah and those who gave shelter and aided - it is they who are the believers, truly. For them is forgiveness and noble provision.

• 8.75: And those who believed after (the initial emigration) and emigrated and fought (in combat) with you - they are of you…

• 9.5: And when the sacred months have passed, then engage the pagans in mortal combat wherever you find them and capture them and desiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish salat (proper worship) and give charity, let them (go) on their way.

• 9.12: And if they break their oaths after their treaty and defame your religion, then fight the leaders of disbelief, for indeed, there are no oaths (sacred) to them; (fight them) so the will stop.

• 9.13: Would you not fight a people who broke their oaths and determined to expel the Messenger, and they had begun (attacking) you the first time? Do you fear them? …

• 9.14: Fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands and will disgrace them and give you victory over them…

• 9.29: Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture – [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

• 9.36: Indeed, the number of months with Allah is twelve [lunar] months in the register of Allah [from] the day He created the heavens and the earth; of these, four are sacred. That is the correct religion, so do not wrong yourselves during them. And fight against the disbelievers collectively as they fight against you collectively.

In each case, the use of the words in English for battle, combat, fight and so on - is actually only one word in Arabic - 'qital'.

Perhaps the best way to understand a single word in today's English would be 'combat' or 'military combat' or even 'mortal combat'. (like Jihad, also, though qital is specific to combat, and not used to mean broadly "any" striving, such as "striving with their wealth and lives" - DD)

In all the cases it is to be understood as military engagement in battle or war.

(Reference: www.AllahsQuran.com/read in the search box, type the word 'fight')

Now notice the actual word 'jihad' - for example in chapter and verse - 9.44 Those who believe in Allah and the Last Day would not ask permission from you to be excused from 'striving' with their wealth and their lives. And Allah is Knowing of those who fear him.

Check out www.AboutJihad.com

We pray to Allah to make it easy for all of us to find the correct meanings and teachings of Islam and allow us to share Islam with others, and forgive our mistakes and grant us His Paradise, ameen.

Permission to copy & distribute (with limits)

Yusuf Estes says: "I give full permission to use any and all of my writings and recordings without copyrights for anyone who is engaged in presenting the true message of the peace of Islam, provided it is done without charge and there are no alterations, additions or deletions. (signed) Yusuf Estes, February 22, 2012"

Answers: www.JustAskislam.com

Free Quran: www.FreeQuran.org

http://www.linkstoislam.com/ (another good website by Yusuf Estes - DD)


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Jihad Watch (Spenser) Blind Leader with Followers

Introduction - Part One

The historical method - why is it important?

"It is dishonest to divorce the Quran from the historical context", says Nadir Ahmed.

The historical and scriptural cases show that early Muslims didn't wage war on "peaceful people."

The Christians who fought the Muslims were violent; they went with armies and killed not only Muslims and Jews but even other Christians.

Often the Crusaders had no intent of even conversion when dealing with the Muslims. They gave no choice of conversion or death. It was probably apparent that Muslims would not have converted to Christianity, so the only option before the Crusaders was genocide, or constant war with the Muslim armies.

A most important debate topic

Did the Muslims fight the non-Muslims because they were disbelievers?

Ch:8:39, is given, also Ch:4:75. These verses are “telling” and reveal “Muslims true intentions” with regards the Christians (and Jews) of the world, as all Muslims should bear witness.

Before I explain about the two verses above, I will leave you this verse to think about:

“Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the cause of taghut (idols/false gods or wrong beliefs, etc) So fight against the allies of Satan. Indeed, the plot of Satan has ever been weak.” (Ch: 4, V:76, The Qur’an).

We understand the above verse to mean that Muslims are fighting “evil” people, evil ideas or the devil himself. But apart from the existential discussion we can have about the forces of good and evil, the previous two verses will shed more light on the reasons for Jihad.

Ch: 9, V: 29 "tells us who to fight but not why to fight", explains Ahmed.

(Similarly, there are verses which tell Muslims to fight other Muslims, and why to fight them; which I will get to later.)

The next verse states, “The Jews say, “Ezra is the son of Allah”, and the Christians say, “The Messiah is the son of Allah …May Allah destroy them; how are they deluded” (Ch: 9, v: 30, The Qur’an).

While the verse obviously condemns the sayings of the People of the Book (their former scriptures having been altered to include wrong beliefs about God e.g. His need for a son, besides other inventions) it doesn’t order the Muslims to fight the non-Muslims based solely on their beliefs. Allah says He will destroy them. But if they repent, Allah will not destroy them, is also to be understood. They must become Muslims or Allah will not accept their worship and good deeds. Allah says in the Quran that He is “at war” with non-believers, or "at war" with the enemies of Muhammad or the enemies of Angel Gabriel.

See another post I have written on the same subject of “Muslims and why to fight them” (see Part 2 of “Complacency in Religion” elsewhere in the blog – revising; add link)

Non-specific verses: not about any people in particular; these verses can refer to any people who behave in the manner described or who have certain characteristics, and are to be understood generally.

"And what is [the matter] with you that you fight not in the cause...?” - is admonishing the Muslims for not fighting the evil people - and it continues to the end, "... of Allah and [for] the oppressed among men, women, and chldren who say, "Our Lord, take us out of this city of oppresssive people and appoint for us from Yourself a helper?" (Ch: 4, V: 75, The Qur'an)

A similar verse has, “And fight them until there is no fitnah [chaos or persecution], and (until) the religion (i.e. worship), all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease – then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do.”(Ch: 8, v: 39, The Qur’an)

Both verses encourage Muslims to aid those innocent people suffering persecutions and torture, irregardless of their religious beliefs.

Comparing Hadiths and Qur’an, on Jihad:

“I have been ordered to fight against people until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah and until they perform the prayers and pay the Zakat, and if they do so they will have gained protection from me for their lives and property, unless [they do acts that are punishable] in accordance with Islam, and their reckoning will be with Allah the Almighty”.

It was related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.

E.g. Two different verses about the same subject – how to deal with polytheists:

“And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.” (Ch: 9, V: 5, The Qur’an)

“And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah [i.e., the Qur’an]. Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.” (Ch: 9, V: 6, The Qur’an)

Protection and ceasing of fighting are dependent on 1 – conversion to Islam, 2 – asylum seekers (below) or 3 – ceasing of hostilities and peace treaties

When the Quran was being revealed piecemeal – being arranged later by Muhammad (as per God’s instructions) into the chapters and a book - over two decades, many different conditions existed at different times, therefore, we cannot judge the whole Qur’an on one or two verses only. The Quran is meant to be studied as a whole, to get the real meaning of Islam and what Allah, Most High, wanted to convey to His slaves (humanity at large).

The next verse in connection with polytheists in Arabia mentions the fact that Allah would not have any polytheists remain in the Arabian Peninsula, as a result the final stand on polytheists is that they must be evicted or eradicated from there. The same is not true for the People of the Book, the Christians and Jews. (Or others with a holy book or scriptures, such as the Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, etc.) And Allah knows best.

“How can there be for the polytheists a treaty in the sight of Allah and with His Messenger, except for those with whom you made a treaty at al-Masjid al-Haram? So as long as they are upright toward you, be upright toward them. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].” (This verse still permits some polytheists at the time the verse was revealed, specifically “those with whom you made a treaty at the [Kaaba]”.)

Ch: 9 v. 29 "Fight those who believe not in Allah …"

Spencer quotes the above without the remainder of the verse. "I didn't give you Quran? I gave you Quran", he says later.

Interestingly, Spencer doesn’t even say “and the Last Day” (maybe) because he doesn’t want to insult others who do not believe in the Last Day (Day of Judgment). He is a weak Christian, and an apologetic one. There are some Christians who do not believe in the Day of Judgment any longer, such as the Jehovah’s witnesses (If I am wrong, please inform me of the fact.) Jehovah’s witnesses also do not believe in Hell. Or maybe Spenser himself doesn’t believe in the Day of Judgment? Hell?

He also mentions a Muslim scholar's viewpoint with direct quotes (Ibn Jauziyah - to be discussed) to support his view.

The Context of the verse, Ahmed

"Believers, fight the unbelievers" and "When you meet the unbelievers..."

'"When you meet the unbelievers..." (continues) tells Muslims "how to fight". “Smite their necks”, and so forth.

And it is in the context of a battle.

I hope there are not people dense enough to really believe that Muslims would be ordered by God to kill the people they "meet" anywhere (marketplace? playground? street corner?) under any or all conditions??

I don't believe there are people that naïve or stupid. I hope not.

I will get later to the point many non-Muslims make that Muslims interpret the Qur'an violently and then act with violence against the non-Muslims because of the above verse (Ch: 9, v: 29). Just give me a few moments to explain some other things. You can also see the following blog post(s); "Complacency in religion" (Parts 1, 2).

Nadir Ahmed defends "his version"

Nadir's version is actually the general Muslims' belief. We don't kill people because they are non-believers. Otherwise, most of the general Muslims would be mass murderers. It is the West especially America that has a much higher prevalence of mass murders by "ordinary citizens" than does any Muslim country today. We are talking about people who murder out of some misplaced anger, not out of religious convictions.

"Background check"

Muslims do not believe that murder is alright. Even "honor killings" for example, are done out of the wrong beliefs or even "family honor" and are not permitted in Islam. It is Islam that forbids killing other than a life for a life. The Islamic authority puts to death rapists, or murderers. Only the Islamic government has the authority under God to stone adulterers (when four reliable witnesses are brought forth). Muslims are not permitted to take the law into their own hands, as a rule.

It is unfortunate that a large number of men in some Muslim societies kill women or girls in the name of "honor" or in the name of Islam, but it is not defensible according to Islam. We find these crimes are numerous but we do not find many mass murders in Muslim societies, or in the Western society perpetrated by Muslims. The unfortunate case recently of one Muslim in the US Army, General Nadel, I think, exemplifies "mass murder", and there are some examples of "honor killing" in the west, recently an Indian American killed his wife, but that also appeared to be a crime of passion, which the Westerners are no doubt familiar with and happens among Christian and other communities within the United States and Canada and all over the world.

Pay attention!

I think Ahmed has a tough time getting his message across to Spencer.

Probably much of the audience has the same problem focusing as Robert Spencer does; it is a problem of not listening or paying enough attention to the actual "words".

The verse Ch: 9, V: 29 was revealed in a certain (important) context and at a certain important moment in history.

Many of the quranic verses are revealed at a specific time or place, with a specific goal in mind. Allah gave Muslims at the time "the instructions" on what to do on those occasions.

One could say, as some people in the military that these were “tactical” or “strategic” verses. Not to be understood as applicable in all times or all places, or all situations, as I alluded to earlier.

Again, it must be reviewed and properly understood by the immediate context.

As Nadir says, "These are just "marching verses" or ‘marching orders’.

Look closely at the words:

"Fight those who believe not in Allah and the Last Day". In other words, fight non-Muslims only.

But the verse doesn't stop there. It continues, "...until they give the Jizya or are humbled".

The above fighting ("Qaatilu") involves more than one group of people engaged in a fight. It doesn't mean fighting civilians, for one thing. Secondly, the Arabic "Qaatilu" (which I am looking at now to verify it in my copy of the Qur'an with corresponding English meanings) isn’t the same as "Aqtil", which means "kill"; therefore, when we examine the word this way, even in the English translation of the Arabic, it becomes very apparent that the right meaning of "fight" is not "kill" indiscriminately, but "fight" other people who also are fighting you. I believe this is clear and as concise as I can make this point.

(Nadir fails by not examing the words closely, or pointing out the meaning of the word “Qaatilu”, in Arabic, and the meaning of "fight" in English. It is not translated nor can it be translated as "kill", which is (often) the same as "murder". Allah didn't tell the Muslims to "murder" people.

Does Islam Permit Discrimination or Racism?

Part two will be next, as well, "Ayaan Hirsi Ali's lies about Islam"

About Jihad - Islam Jihad and Terrorism

About Jihad - Islam Jihad and Terrorism

See this link for information on Jihad in Islam, not Holy War. Use this link, until I incorporate it into one of my previous blogs. Terrific!