Showing posts with label slavery. Show all posts
Showing posts with label slavery. Show all posts

Sunday, December 8, 2013

If she wore red, she would be LIttle Red

Zaha S says:  

+Jane Dughatir I don't really understand what I'm denying either?

(LOL< this is a common thing on the internet – I DON’T” UNDERSTAND”< I’m NOT an EXPERT< I haven’t’ STUDIED” – then MY ADVICE IS don’t say things off the top of your head, for GOD’S SAKE OKAY to be FAIR< she is talking about my statements to her ABOUT WHAT SHE DID SAY!!! , so we will stick to that for now)

“I don’t understand what I’m denying either?” (This appears to be my fault, lol, she is being contrary, and she means she understands what I’m accusing her of, but doesn’t agree that she said anything wrong.)

“It is true what you said about Saudia and Iran I never denied that, what I'm saying is their governments are not Islamic! No country in the world practices Sharia law perfectly. I also mentioned that crimes like those are punishable but not all by death, because at the end of the day you need to forgive just like Allah SWT forgives (of course some things like rape and murder are another story). Thank you for calling someone you don't know a weak Muslim and "little" I really appreciate that. I'm not going to spend my time responding to someone who insults me, especially a fellow Muslim. If you are Muslim yourself you would know that Islam preaches kindness. Once again M3asalama”

Well, since we are being forgiving, why are MURDER and RAPE another story?? OH, I KNOW, because also in the west, where she grew up, they are crimes which get punished; her standard is only what AMERICA agrees with. SO, we have to do what AMERICA says; that’s fine if you LIVE IN America, but MOST MUSLIMS DON”T.

But you don’t get to change the sharia, or lie. THAT’S A NO_NO on the internet, BECAUSE< no one will believe you if you LIE>

I don’t lie,(not only, but also) because then I will get caught and no one will believe me, EVER,, especially because I’m a “strict Muslim”; IF I LIE, I’ll have no credibility left!!

Some ppl however, don’t care about their credibility, they figure they are insignificant, and their opinions don’t really amount to anything anyway, (or maybe I am almost the only one who read what they said, so they don’t care – they just want to win an argument, by tip toeing around issues and playing with words), or “I DIN’T SAY That YOU SAID” nonsense is always USEFUL to confuse the discussion; the more confusion, the better to hide what they don’t want you to see, that they LIED and are covering it up, or trying to disguise it as something the other person said wrong.

LIKE MR T< stressing the word “NICE” as if it is a crime to paraphrase someone…YOU will see how ridiculous his ‘accusations’ are. (or even for me to put quotes around the word nice, “NICE” as if he did say “NICE” - and not other things which mean someone is nice. AND what the hell did he think that would prove?? That I didn’t direct quote him??

OKAY I ADMIT IT, LOCK ME UP & throw away the key, forever. I”D PREFER THAT sometimes to this kind of ridiculousness and immaturity.



I said:

Salaam, dear. No, you said the specific crimes that were discussed such as sexual crimes are not punishable and they are ([with death], I’m qualifying this now since I neglected to but I had said it earlier, but as she had said above, “but not all by death” – well, those crimes are punishable by death and she should n’t claim otherwise, does she write the sharia law??Is it her place to make Fatwas, about who gets punished; especially if she isn’t giving any details, just a general rule that “you need to forgive just like Allah SWT forgives” isn’t good enough and is lying. So is stealing [punished, with cutting the hand, and there are rules, but yes, punishment happens) No, Iran and Saudi don’t practice sharia perfectly, I also agree with that elsewhere and didn’t say she “denied” that, so why is she saying “I never denied that”, as if I had accused her of denying that [“it isn’t practiced perfectly”, I agreed and always agree with that statement, nothing is perfect, this life is imperfect and the Muslims and their practice of the religion will always be imperfect – BUT GOD doesn’t require us to be PERFECT, just to try to follow ISLAM to the best of our ability. (THAT’s why, unlike Christians, we don’t believe we need[ed] “JESUS, A.S, to die for our sins.)

I have to protest the way these two (and many like them on the net) point out to me what they said, as if I had “denied them” or accused them of something which they didn’t say, they have said enough wrong that I don’t have to make up other stuff, too…).

THEN I SAID:

“That's in Islam when a country properly practices sharia, which is why even though Saudi and Iran are not perfect models of Islam, they do have such punishments which have always been done in Saudi, following the way of the early Muslims. People read about Islam and books are easy to find, as well as some proper sites on internet. ..."You can't fool everybody all of the time." And you can't fool me. Yes, ma'a salaam. Islam also preaches knowledge of your religion. Even many non-Muslims know Islam better and defend it better than you do. “

The overall tone of her message is “YOU ACCUSED ME OF SOMETHING I DIDN’T SAY (this is utterly misleading and just a red herring attempt to make herself appear innocent) Brave MR T Also does the same thing. HE KEEPS BRINGING UP THAT “HE NEVER SAID THAT SUFIS ARE NICE PEOPLE?? OH NO?? And that is all MY FAULT because I placed quotes around the word “NICE”. SO, I asked him “YOU DON’T THINK SUFIS ARE NICE THEN?? BECAUSE HE HAD BEEN GUSHING ABOUT HOW good they are, not his exact words, and then said in the next sentence, that “SALAFIS and WAHHABIS”( who are ALWAYS MUSLIMS FROM SAUDI ARABIA) or the gulf – IN OTHER WORDS SUNNIS – are BAD PEOPLE, not his exact words. But you can read his exact words; I will post the conversation in full if I have all of it, or post most of it here, or next post

It would help if First, the reader can decide whether they believe that SUNNIS are really that bad?? How come they are so bad and all others, even the SHIA who are also killing and slaughtering MUSLIMS in Syria right now, by the thousands, including children, DON’T DESERVE ANY CONDEMNATION BY +TVEE, but the “WAHHABIS and SALAFISTS” DO??

I”LL TELL YOU WHY _ BECAUSE that is what he has learned on the INTERNET and in the MEDIA> he is always hearing about the bad SUNNIS (because no one on the internet or the MEDIA claims that these “WAHHABIS AND SALAFISTS” are anything but the MUSLIMS WHO ARE FROM SAUDI< or the gulf, or ARABS and practice “EXTREMISM”. That is the CLAIM< which MR T, like a good “SUFI LOVER” believes, just because it gets repeated so many times day in and day out.

IF the READER today isn’t the slightest bit open minded about this discussion, which will take some time, then THIS POST isn’t for you!! IF YOU ARE VERY GULLIBLE and believe everything negative you hear about SAUDI< which isn’t perfect, but so isn’t AMERICA or EUROPE perfect> then you don’t belong here reading my blog. QUITE frankly, the discussion would be OVER YOUR HEAD. OR IT WOULDN”T PLEASE YOU, at which point you will become frustrated or angry, and then call me “NOT MUSLIM” like the very mature and intelligent Mr. T (with an IQ of 128, wow is that very high? Congratulations, for your high IQ; like I care, or even believe you, lol. It doesn’t take an IQ test to know that you are an ignoramus, though!)

MR T< first off, almost from the beginning says he doesn’t know a lot about ISLAM. So, the first cute or nice –seeming girl on the internet who SAYS ANYTHING about ISLAM is his favorite commentator. HE (+tvee) GUSHES ON ABOUT HER (and the sufis).



New York on Islam

(The Libyan American girl/young person replies to someone else, who posted this discussion before me, he is +terente P)


Zaha S

Nov 28, 2013

"Ummm why are you listening to random supposedly "Islamic" groups? Just like the KKK don't rep Christians, these groups don't rep Muslims. Seriously you want to get a good view of Islam then read the Quran. Of course to us Muslims, Islam is the right religion but only for those willing to accept it. It is not going to be the dominant religion in the US because only around 1% of Americans are Muslim seriously why are you being such an Islamophobe? I'm so sick of people like you listening to propaganda, I bet you've never met a Muslim in your life. Peace and may God Bless You."



terente P

Nov 29, 2013

pls dont tell me that CAIR dont represent muslims, but start to fight against that CAIR and tell them they dont represent muslims/islam! :)) if you do that and will succeed in bringing them to stop their activities, then I'll agree with you!

1% of Americans are muslims, but exactly organizations like CAIR try to change that and spread islam in US (there are more of them)

i dont see anything wrong in being an islamophob. there are christianophobes in our societies too and the athiests refuse any kind of religion. everybody can form his/her view how they want. if somebody thinks islam is somethign bad, they are free to think like that!

propaganda is that stupid try to create a positive image about islam, what you are doing here too

"may God Bless You."

God! but not allah (satan)


(Zaha S, says back)

"Ummm first and foremost Allah is Arabic for God and lol I don't think you fully understand the meaning of "Islamophobe". I don't agree with these terrorist groups and most good pious Muslims don't either but they have power, money, and believe it or not the Western governments backing them up so there is not much we can do except use our voices. The only spread of Islam you're talking about is peaceful just like Mormons or Jehovah's witness' at your door on a Sunday morning except even less. Honestly the only thing I'm really concerned about is people looking at weird groups or countries like Iran or Saudi Arabia as models of Islam and thats the opposite no country on earth is representing Islam correctly unfortunately. So please please please as a fellow human being talk to a Muslim about our way of life, don't gather info from Islamophobe sites or people. Happy Turkey Day :)"

Reply (terente P, back)

+Zaha S

no matter what allah in arabic means! its about what are the properties of that allah and they indicate satan, not god. if that what arabs understand as god its actually satan, then is satan their god! worshipers of satan = muslims

you take the arabic meaning of god but tell further down saudi arabia is a weird country :))

you claim there are only some bad examples, but you cant mention a single islamic country where islam isnt bullshit - islam isnt peaceful, no matter which country we take as example

-honour killings

-minor marriages

-death penalties for homosexuality, sex outside marriage, apostates

-slavery

-oppression of women generally
....
we dont need spreading of islam!



Tuesday, June 18, 2013

Abraham Lincoln - Reformer, Not Vampire Slayer (Part 1 - full version )



Religion and Freedom – are they dichotomously opposed?


Part One a) – Islam’s legacy


Zaid Ibn Thabit said, who reported it is known, and I could reference it, (in the notes, or in revisions), before Islam, he was the only monotheist (alive at the time), “I am the only person (amongst you) on the religion of Abraham”. (Sahih Bukhari)

Muhammad had not been commissioned with his dawa at the time when Zaid was in search of a religion like that of Abraham. Nonetheless, there were some people in addition to Zaid, such as the Prophet, who used to worship Allah with sincere devotion. The Prophet Muhammad himself didn’t used to prostrate himself to idols. Zaid said of himself, he would not eat the meat (slaughtered on the nusuub of idols) of the Meccans (or pagans). Zaid excelled in Tawheed as one of the first of the monotheists in Arabia at that time. (Sahih Bukhari)

There were few people who did not commit sins like fornication or adultery (Al-Mubarakpuri, 2002).


Important lessons –

 

Allah’s wisdom can be discerned by people; Worship of the Creator (Allah) can be discerned, furthermore, it is an innate desire to worship God as one, who is without partner or son or any need.


In this present age, an “Islamic revival” is the hope of many Muslims. They hope for better things –health, happiness, livelihood, for their children and children’s children. But they are a “minority” in a wider society often hostile to Islam and their dearly held beliefs.

It has become very important that each Muslim should know his religion and the Ummah (community) must strive harder to defend its religion and community of believers. This means a proper Islamic education, as well. Of course, they should be foremost in morals and manners.


Allah’s knowledge is all encompassing.



Islam is a complete way of life. Also, it is complete and perfect since the time of Muhammad, pbuh. Therefore, one must seek answers in the past to questions or problems of the present and future.



Specific questions:


1 – Why was slavery not finally forbidden in Islam?

2 – Why was marriage to “minors” (as people today see the situation of marriage to a girl of 9 or 10) permitted before and not forbidden in Islam? Why was it permitted for the former peoples and how should we understand this in terms of the practice of Muslims forever? E.g. Can Muslims marry young girls or not?



An anecdote -


The fact is that many Muslims today still live in societies which are “cut off” from the world in terms of their ways/beliefs. After Islam’s “Golden Age”, it regressed. Allah as the Lord of the Universe knew that in some Muslim-majority states, Muslims would largely remain poor, until the end of time, when wealth will become so abundant that no poor will be found to accept the Zakat. (We assume this will be a worldwide event or phenomenon, but it could just be a regional one (e.g. like the flood of Noah.) Assuming it is a worldwide happening, it will be difficult to find anyone to receive charity. Muslims will not be able to expiate sins by charity, as a result of this spread of wealth to all corners. However, knowledge will remain, until finally before the Day of Judgment is near, it will be removed from the hearts. Then many sinful people will prevail. The good will die by a “cool wind” (or “cold wind”). (Sahih Bukhari) Qur’an will be removed in one night from the hearts and all books or other forms of written material (or storage) (Sahih Bukhari).

It appears to be a blemish on Islam that Allah, the ‘author’ of the Quran did not abolish slavery outright.

I have stated before that slavery is not a race issue but a “justice” issue.

As for Islam, it is about justice of a supreme nature. Compared to other religions and some belief systems, such as communism, Islam is just and gave minorities rights. Communism or socialism seeks to limit people’s creative purpose, by restricting the ownership of personal wealth and the use of personal wealth to make more wealth. It insists on communal holdings and community sharing of everything materially valuable. This is the reason Capitalists are the furthest from Communism.

How did Islam encourage “freedom” and “justice” for slaves?


Complete Freedom is dichotomously opposed to Islam, because Islam can never accept that there is more justice (and it is right) in people choosing their government, laws, based on personal preferences, the times, etc. than that a system revealed by God and its implementation according to the Prophet Muhammad and early generations of Muslims, should be the only law; Islamic sharia doesn’t change, even as time passes and situations change, it is a bedrock of constancy.

Allah didn’t permit people to decide against the sharia, decisions must reflect the basic principles of sharia.

These basic principles are sufficient for Muslims to discern the best course of action in a situation. By Ijtihad or Ijma, cases without clear examples and references to the past, verdicts may be “agreed” by scholars (which is consensus), or “inferred” (logically deduced by “conjecture”) from the available evidence, but nothing circumstantial is permitted to enter as evidence.



********


Abraham Lincoln – Reformer, Not Vampire Slayer


Religion and Freedom – are they dichotomously opposed?




Part One b) – Justice for All


“Allah didn’t permit people to decide against the sharia, decisions must reflect the basic principles of sharia.”

These basic principles are sufficient for Muslims to discern the best course of action in a situation. By Ijma or Ijtihad, cases without clear examples and references to the past, verdicts may be “agreed” by scholars (which is consensus), or “inferred” (logically deduced by “conjecture”) from the available evidence, but nothing circumstantial is permitted to enter as evidence.


Principles of fairness


Not all slaves were black in Arabia. Slavery was viewed as a social necessity (and that’s what it likely was to some extent, after Islam arrived). Women and slaves could however own property in early Islam, unlike in Christian and English or European law. Slaves were permitted to buy their freedom, which gave them more rights than women in Europe had, to force the hand of another to free them; women in Europe could not seek divorce. Someone could buy the slave’s freedom. This made it easier for strong slaves to buy their freedom, than weak or old slaves, or female slaves. The person, who buys the slave his freedom, receives the inheritance of that slave when he dies. This would be an additional incentive to buy and release good slaves who would work hard to earn wealth for themselves. Female slaves and others of less value would be freed by the generosity of their owner or another wealthy person (e.g. a philanthropist).

A slave with intelligence and talent, or brute strength, and who was resourceful would be the most capable of returning the best wealth (inheritance right of the person who buys his freedom), in the future, and would be the most sought after slave, in any case. The price of slaves varied greatly, but it was not a factor in whether or not people would release them from bondage, in fact, as I’ve delineated, the facts suggest otherwise, and perceive that most of the free slaves were men who were at the proper age for starting families, who’s owners or other generous people look upon with generosity and even admiration (if it wasn’t mere pity), therefore released them as an act of goodness.

(A book I can highly recommend here, for the story of how to create wealth, referred to interchangeably as “gold” or “wealth”, etc. is the well-known one, who’s ‘imagined’ authors are ‘unknown narrators of the story’, published by Penguin books, USA, “The Richest Man in Babylon” by George S. Clason, which has had a new heyday in this part of the world.)

The situation for women in Islam was much better than for slaves in any country and better than women’s lives in Europe during the same era. Women and slaves could own property. Muslim women had the right to make contracts. For slaves, there were several ways out of slavery, some of which I have already explained.

Additional reasons of release:


People often released their slave to expiate sins.

People also released slaves to seek the pleasure of Allah, His Mercy and Forgiveness, as well as reward in the Hereafter; the Prophet Muhammad, pbuh, said, “any person who released a slave form the descendants of the Prophet Ishmael, will be forgiven his sins (revise – direct quote needs to be referenced for accuracy).

If Heaven wasn’t enough of a motivating factor inheritance money could be. This was also dependent on some level of altruism.

Female slaves who bore children for their "sayyid" or master were released automatically from bondage at the death of their master, and their children could not be taken as slaves or inheritance; this is in contrast to the extraordinary lenghts the slavemasters in America had in the legal system to take slaves of the children or even grandchildren of their slaves. Whole families lived as slaves in a common household, farmland as free labor with no recourse to emancipation except if they were permitted to buy their freedom. It was a level of bondage much more inhumane and permanent-seeming than that of slavery as practiced in Arabia during Muhammad's time.



Towards Abolition:


As I believe that slavery is almost “irrelevant” today, it is on the way out, but it is still an important topic and very controversial in some settings; e.g. debates, women’s rights discussions, and so on.

Like anything which is a potential call for suspicion or sense of mortification, slavery is a topic of much debate when we speak specifically about Islam. No one believes that Christians today own slaves, but it could well be that there are Christians in some African countries who like their Muslim brothers, own slaves until this day.

But is slavery a purely or more obviously Islamic cultural and religious practice?

To know this, let’s examine some positive statements which prove that Islam is not “in favor” of slavery; Islam doesn’t approve of slavery more than it approves of putting people in prison for life.

The Prophet Muhammad, pbuh, said: “a man, who educates his slave girl, then frees and marries her…” [To the end] (Ref. is found in Sahih Bukhari, among others.)

Fadel Solaiman is a popular modern Muslim speaker, founder of Bridges foundation (website url http://www.bridgesfoundation.org/) he tours primarily in Muslim circles and religious/ educational workshops, who speaks also to the rights of Muslims, the relevance of Quran in Muslims’ life and proofs of the existence of God and other topics.

He has successfully taught many Muslims about the Islamic teachings regarding slavery and emancipation. Some of his material, specifically the kind of emancipation (or roads to freedom) advocated by Islam, which were implemented and successful on a grand scale in ancient Muslim civilization, and continued, until the fall of the Caliphate; again we see the free people enslaved by their enemies in religious wars and as well pogroms, even many Muslims, were again made slaves in large numbers, during the religious wars between the Muslims and the Christian Crusaders. One famous slave from Africa was Prince Abdurrahman, who was captured on a desolate beach and shipped to America. Another more famous, was the royal son-in-law of the Emir al Moumineen, who became known as Qutuz after his enslavement in Egypt. His father was a Prince, the cousin of the powerful Emir; Qutuz and his wife Jolanar had both been enslaved and eventually were lost from each other, until they matured and finally were able to be reunited and married. She died in a battle against the some of the barbarous Tartars under Hulago at the time.

Muslims today are still derided for past ‘iniquities’; the slave trade is often cited by ignorant (on the internet or in books, which are sold unfortunately in a free market which doesn’t account for tastes, books written by Westerners, or Europeans, who openly declare their hate for Islam and Muslims’ beliefs)while they may even accuse Islam of promoting slavery; slavery was in fact an ages old practice before Islam in the Arabian peninsula was revived by the message of Muhammad and Quranic revelation.

In the anecdote at the start, I find several lessons or opportunity for reflection; reflection will not solve problems, alone, but is a step toward resolution. In any case, these are what I thought about –


Zakat will be taken but no one will benefit from it; then it will be wise for people to think of other ways in which they will benefit humanity, so that they can expiate for their sins, or at the end of time, there will be greater trials than ever before, and that will expiate their sins E.g. natural disaster or other.


People will probably be living in luxury, and that will mean they are heedless of Allah, and so He, azawajal, spreads wealth among all of the people, and they forget Allah, so He will forget them, too. He will test them with wealth and children, and their blessings, but will not forgive them, but a little.


People will later return to Allah, azawajal, and He will perhaps test their (new) resolve (again) with new trials, possibly loss of children and poverty, they will remain steadfast, and the majority will remain poor, while a few will give charity, and the institution of Zakat will save those poor from utter mental collapse and destitution.


In disastrous wars many men will die, leaving women and children without fathers. Nonetheless, some women will be so desperate they will seek to give their children away; they allow them to marry at a younger age, a custom which previously they had not experienced. People will be afraid that the enemy will molest their women and children, so permit the girls to marry at an earlier age.


Eventually the situation will come full circle, so that there will be no poor to accept the zakat money. Then this will mark the end of Days.

This is merely a fantastical story with some grounding in the knowledge we have about the coming Judgment. Whether wealthy Muslims will increase or decrease is a matter for Allah; but as oil production increases so do profitability and consumption; if Muslims can hold onto their natural treasure, oil production will continue to benefit Muslims. But if they do not share the wealth by even distribution to poorer Muslims, then Allah may punish them for their lack of judgment and fairness in a critical matter; the wealth of Muslim lands, especially if there is a caliphate, is for all the Muslim Ummah. There should not be any poor who have nothing while others hoard the wealth and even refuse to give zakat, which is an issue of concern to some scholars who speak about these matters; when they hear that there are rich Muslims or business owners who do not pay the yearly zakat, nor do they even believe in its compulsory nature it is proof of the sinner’s dangerous disregard for the basic teachings and pillars of Islam.

Abraham Lincoln - Reformer, Not Vampire Slayer

Religion and Freedom – are they dichotomously opposed?

Part One – Islam’s legacy


Zaid Ibn Thabit said, who reported it is known, and I could reference it, (in the notes, or in revisions), before Islam, he was the only monotheist (alive at the time), “I am the only person (amongst you) on the religion of Abraham”.

Muhammad had not been commissioned with his dawa at the time when Zaid was in search of a religion like that of Abraham. Nonetheless, there were some people in addition to Zaid, such as the Prophet, who used to worship Allah with sincere devotion. The Prophet Muhammad himself didn’t used to prostrate himself to idols. Zaid said of himself, he would not eat the meat (slaughtered on the nusuub of idols) of the Meccans (or pagans). Zaid excelled in Tawheed as one of the first of the monotheists in Arabia at that time.

There were few people who did not commit sins like fornication or adultery (Al-Mubarakpuri,2002).

Important lessons –

Allah’s wisdom can be discerned by people; Worship of the Creator (Allah) can be discerned, furthermore, it is an innate desire to worship God as one, who is without partner or son or any need.

In this present age, an “Islamic revival” is the hope of many Muslims. They hope for better things –health, happiness, livelihood, for their children and children’s children. But they are a “minority” in a wider society often hostile to Islam and their dearly held beliefs.

It has become very important that each Muslim should know his religion and the Ummah (community) must strive harder to defend its religion and community of believers. This means a proper Islamic education, as well. Of course, they should be foremost in morals and manners.

Allah’s knowledge is all encompassing.

Islam is a complete way of life. Also, it is complete and perfect since the time of Muhammad, pbuh. Therefore, one must seek answers in the past to questions or problems of the present and future.

Specific questions:

1 – Why was slavery not finally forbidden in Islam?

2 – Why was marriage to “minors” (as people today see the situation of marriage to a girl of 9 or 10) permitted before and not forbidden in Islam? Why was it permitted for the former peoples and how should we understand this in terms of the practice of Muslims forever? E.g. Can Muslims marry young girls or not?

An anecdote -

The fact is that many Muslims today still live in societies which are “cut off” from the world in terms of their ways/beliefs. After Islam’s “Golden Age”, it regressed. Allah as the Lord of the Universe knew that in some Muslim-majority states, Muslims would largely remain poor, until the end of time, when wealth will become so abundant that no poor will be found to accept the Zakat. (We assume this will be a worldwide event or phenomenon, but it could just be a regional one (e.g. like the flood of Noah.) Assuming it is a worldwide happening, it will be difficult to find anyone to receive charity. Muslims will not be able to expiate sins by charity, as a result of this spread of wealth to all corners. However, knowledge will remain, until finally before the Day of Judgment is near, it will be removed from the hearts. Then many sinful people will prevail. The good will die by a “cool wind” (or “cold wind”).

It appears to be a blemish on Islam that Allah, the ‘author’ of the Quran did not abolish slavery outright.

I have stated before that slavery is not a race issue but a “justice” issue.

As for Islam, it is about justice of a supreme nature. Compared to other religions and some belief systems, such as communism, Islam is just and gave minorities rights. Communism or socialism seeks to limit people’s creative purpose, by restricting the ownership of personal wealth and the use of personal wealth to make more wealth. It insists on communal holdings and community sharing of everything materially valuable. This is the reason Capitalists are the furthest from Communism.

How did Islam encourage “freedom” and “justice” for slaves?

Complete Freedom is dichotomously opposed to Islam, because Islam can never accept that there is more justice (and it is right) in people choosing their government, laws, based on personal preferences, the times, etc. than that a system revealed by God and its implementation according to the Prophet Muhammad and early generations of Muslims, should be the only law; Islamic sharia doesn’t change, even as time passes and situations change, it is a bedrock of constancy.

Allah didn’t permit people to decide against the sharia, decisions must reflect the basic principles of sharia.

These basic principles are sufficient for Muslims to discern the best course of action in a situation. By Ijtihad or Ijma, cases without clear examples and references to the past, verdicts may be “agreed” by scholars (which is consensus), or “inferred” (logically deduced by “conjecture”) from the available evidence, but nothing circumstantial is permitted to enter as evidence.



*******
 
 
 
[Part Two - Next - will be the final word on Abraham Lincoln's legacy]

Monday, June 17, 2013

The post before the post

I revised this Q/A and will link to an older post on the same kind of discussion; enjoy :)
Abe Lincoln's legacy will be in the next post, insha allah.


Q./A.

Good day Jane, thanks for the reply again. I hope you are well.

<<<

although I am an atheist, I was a Christian for 25 years. This is what Christians believe as well. They believe that God created human beings with the ability to know and love him. If God did do this, then it is expected that he would reveal himself adequately to all human beings, particularly if heaven or hell is on the line. But I don't think that we can say that God has done this. There are billions of people today who believe other things than you do about God/Allah. There are billions of people who have lived previously who have believed in the spirits and polytheism. What humans believe about the gods is complex and not totally understood, but it can certainly be said that the most important determinant in this is culture; when and where a person was born.

I also have some experience with the Mormons. One day after they gave me their book, I decided to read. After finishing, I found nothing to make me believe that this was the prophetic word of God. When I told them this in a follow-up appointment, they asked me if I had prayed to God while reading to reveal to me if it was true. I came to understand that these people had had a religious experience where they were confident that this book was inspired by God. I have had my own religious experiences as a Christian that convinced me that Christianity was the true religion. These types of experiences are common to all human beings and I am sure that some pagans had the same experience regarding Zeus, Thor, and Shiva.

It’s also quite bizarre to think that everything that happens is according to God's will. There are 9 million children that die every year before the age of five, before they had ever had a chance to formulate any solid beliefs about a deity. And millions of human beings have died before birth as a result of spontaneous miscarriage. Hundreds of millions of other humans are born with congenital brain defects, so hardly can be expected to formulate correct beliefs about God.

to my mind, these facts are inconsistent with a God that wants to have a relationship with human beings, but quite consistent with religion being a human phenomenon. It is unreasonable to believe that human beings who follow other religions are deliberately being wicked. There certainly are some frauds out there, but the majority of regular people are earnest in their belief. They are not deliberately rejecting Allah and the Prophet; they have just come to believe other things.

it seems quite clear to me, that this world is not governed by any divine will, but by cold impersonal mindless physical forces. This beautifully explains all phenomena in the world from tsunamis, floods, drought, the plague, malaria, birth defects, a world governed by survival of the fittest and dominated by survival of the strongest, the diversity of life. And suffering. IMHO, a loving deity who wants a relationship with human individuals does not.

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my point about the four witnesses is that we have better ways to determine whether adultery occurred. It is not a very practical requirement for adultery because it's almost never going to happen. It is more likely that a rich spouse hired 4 witnesses. In addition three reliable witnesses could be enough. Why not five witnesses?

Finally stoning to death is a horrific punishment for adultery. There are many people who have committed adultery who have reformed themselves to become valuable citizens in the world. My best friend was one of them. If he had been stoned to death his two children and wife would've missed out on a great provider, husband and father. He was suffering his psychological issues at the time when he was in his early 20s.

My point about rape was that Islam has difficulty deciding what rape is. There are many people claiming to know Islamic jurisprudence on this who feel that sometimes the woman is responsible, at least partly, if she is inadequately accompanied or dressed. Apparently Islam feels that men are barbarians and cannot resist women.

Reply – many non-Muslims also say things like this, it doesn’t mean it is okay for a man to commit rape, and most Muslims know that rape isn’t justified because the woman is not properly dressed; many rapists are non-Muslims, I’d say more than likely most are non-Muslims. India at the moment has a big problem with gang rape; the question is obvious – why is it happening? Are all men "barbarians" after all?It seems men there regard women as objects, and many men may well be affected by drugs, alcohol, pornography, and so on. If they are not able to marry or have sex with women, they resort to rape, because it is a gang activity, I doubt it is a group psychosis, but a group activity which has gained acceptance among youth or men there. Obviously, the society has many ills if this is the case.)

in my country, rape is not very common. The vast majority of women live their lives never experiencing it. I think it is far more prevalent in poor countries, like India and Pakistan. Not sure how much rape is reported in some countries and as I said before, we can always make rape very unlikely by chaining women to their homes, but that would[not] increase the quality of lives for women. The vast majority of Western women value their freedom and the ability to make their own decisions.

Reply – Stu, you said you are from America or the west? Where do you actually live and call home, then, because rape happens every five minutes or even more than that in America. I think you are not telling me the whole truth…? I believe it was also, Stu, but I could be mistaken who said his wife was at the Boston Marathon or nearby, when the explosion happened!) Allah knows better than I.

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Actually, when you read the saying, it illustrates that the Prophet was telling men, if they beat their wives they shouldn't sleep with them, which is like a deterrent.<<<<< I

These two above statements reveal to me that you believe that the man has authority over the woman. Do you think men have some sort of special knowledge and moral authority to dictate to women how they should dress? Are women so inferior that they need a man to tell her, with authority to beat her if she doesn't comply?

1) Yes, man has a responsibility to care for and protect his woman, or wife or daughters. 2) I was obviously speaking about the past (that men should beat their wives; is something not done by regular Muslim men anymore, which I speak about elsewhere, probably I mentioned this to him , so I'll check the details of other emails), which is 1400 years ago, if you would pay closer attention when reading, you wouldn’t be asking this question; I am a self-respecting and good woman, therefore, I do take care to dress modestly and believe many women would do so, if they believed it was for their own good; problem is many women believe it is beneficial to dress provocatively, though it is 2013, so they can find a companion who will love them; this is the wrong approach, but they think it will work. Women are raised from childhood to believe that their looks are the most important thing when it comes to finding love. Society also encourages women by the magazines, advertising, fashion shows, etc. to like to dress in the latest fashions and spend their earnings on clothing and makeup, and accessories, so they can be trendy and this will compensate for their feelings of ugliness, shortcomings in appearance or skills, etc. Many women are not following the crowd and are brainy enough to shun at least some of the unnecessary and frivolous spending on new clothing and instead care about more important matters. They also would seem to have more self-respect and dignity than someone who needs to seek approval from others. There are Western women who boycott products or companies they believe exploit women in sexually suggestive ways, or abuse workers (e.g. Calvin Klein becasue of its ads, is sometimes boycotted by individual women, others which employ girls in sweat shops). 3) “No” men don’t have “some sort of special knowledge” and I can’t imagine what you think that I or anyone would think that would be?? Women and men both have their duties to family, society and God. They will also be equally rewarded for their good deeds. There isn’t a huge movement among Muslim women to have the Quran changed, because they understand that Islam says they are equal in the sight of God and before the law. Women wear hijab (the Islamic clothing, a long outer garment or hijab and cover their hair with a veil, not out of fear of the husband, but in obedience to God, who demands it; if they don’t, no one should force them, or abuse them in any case. There are many uncovered women in GCC and also many covered women. Many women have grandmothers who didn’t cover in their youth, but their mothers began to cover and now they also may or may not cover; it is their choice. In Saudi Arabia and Iran women cover as per their government’s laws. In France women don’t wear niqaab as it is banned. Therefore, it is also governments which dictate the type of hijab. Even non-Muslims now can tell women how they should dress, which is definitely not a sign of absolute freedom of choice, either. Whether the government is Islamic or applies some of the sharia, or is a secular or democratic government, women are finding that they are being forced to demand their freedom of choice and conscience. All the power and God’s help to them, I say. Note that in Saudi Arabia, actually, not all women are forced to keep on the face veil, though it is something the government prefers (and it is the law - which is sometimes ignored) women do, as they are asked to abide by sharia law (almost but not quite in every area of life). No non-Muslims are permitted to enter Mecca, but other than that, they are free to travel the Kingdom, with visas. It is as other countries concerned with security so people are required to have jobs and place of employment or a valid reason for being in the Kingdom, or they can be expelled. One might see Americans as well as Indonesians or Chinese living and working in Saudi Arabia, and they do so with respect for the law in most cases.

[A famous female who works in television in Riyadh does not cover, this shows that she is not being abused because she is not covering though she knows it is the law. She also says she is intelligent and understands Islam, therefore the reason for her lack of face veil and the reason for her makeup and hair (she partly covers her hair only) is that she prefers to dress and behave in a manner against the Sharia. Yet she accuses the Sheikh of being extremist and against the rights of women. She should not defend her tendency to exaggerate the govt's crimes against her, when she is able to do so on national television and was not in any way abused (prior to her statements; in the video on YouTub). Whether or not she is still alive is for the audience to answer, I have no interest in the question or her campaign against sharia.]

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well indeed, some of the topics might be irrelevant. I'm not sure that slavery today is irrelevant in the Muslim world. There are some countries in the world that claim to be based on sharia who have not outlawed slavery. It is strange to me that God would condone slavery by giving rules for its management if he knew that ultimately these rules would be irrelevant. Slavery has become irrelevant in most of the world because all humans have come to understand that slavery is abhorrent. Concubinage and, for the most part polygamy, have also become irrelevant for the same reasons.

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Allah permitted slavery in His wisdom, but He revealed to the prophet on many occasions the great reward for freeing slaves. It was also forbidden to make a free person a slave as per the prophet Muhammad’s saying (revise – find direct quote). Yes, it is absolutely the case that all people have come to see that it is a practice of past ages, and most communities, who are modern don’t even think about slavery anymore, because it is so far from our idea of equality and human brotherhood. Islam definitely had something to do with the almost complete eradication of slavery; as I mention, people in the more modern Islamic countries still today express interest to free the remaining slaves in such countries as Sudan or Nigeria, where people often live in desert tribes, away from modern life. It is likely some slave owners are Christians.There are hardly slaves in the cities or towns anymore, though one might be able to find some (How many? I can’t honestly say I know, nor do I think anyone knows, but maybe there is someone who can study this; it would be a worthwhile endeavor for some Islamic nations to do so, maybe one day, they will allot resources to this question). We realize that even Saudi Arabia is not a perfect model of an Islamic nation, and while some people claim that leaders such as Ghaddafi promoted women’s rights in their own country, it isn’t the case, but a false understanding of what he was actually promoting, which was the disrespect and enslavement of women (and men) to his ideology (a kind of socialism). He imprisoned many innocent men and even women and boys, therefore how could it be claimed that he was “elevating” women or promoting “women’s rights”? Nonetheless, Islam encourages freeing of slaves, people free slaves voluntarily or others pay to have the slaves released (pay the price of the slave to the Sayyid (master). There was never a racist attitude in Islam however, and slaves were not only black people. Therefore, it was an economic and societal norm (which was slowly changing) and freedom for slaves necessitated understanding of Islamic teachings; this knowledge spread very far and in the epicenter there were fewer slaves than at any time in history when the Prophet died and the love for his Sunnah meant that people continued to free slaves all the time. Perhaps in some countries this didn’t progress as fast and with the fall of the Islamic Empire, though there was slave trading by Christians (which continued even to the last century in a Westward movement, to America, which was also “necessity” because the slaves helped build the country and were used as cheap labor, etc. their humanity was questioned, and only until very recently in the West the law stated that black person is only 3/5 of a white person. The government (not the Bible) probably along with some encouragement from religious leaders taught that because the bible says that God put a mark on the son of Adam who killed his brother, eg. Cane killed Abel, which was taught in some circles or churches as the origin of black people. Muslims were forbidden from racism, racist remarks or racist attitudes and hatred of people based on race (xenophobia, etc.). No doubt this is in part why Muslims had no animosity or thoughts of enslavement because of race. In Arabia race wasn’t a factor in enslavement, but wars and the capture and necessary development of a system (long ago) necessitated that tribes and societies find a way to deal with their war captives without necessitating killing all the men and boys. People in communities must have thought of the need to use bonds such as chains, and if necessary beating with whips to discipline incompliant or disobedient slaves. Women were easier to control than men because they are weak, and obviously men liked to use women for sex, so that was also part of the social order in many societies long ago. One wonders how people in societies without slavery managed to defeat their enemies and avoid enslaving them. Did they kill almost all their enemies? Did they prefer to let them go after paying money? Or did they have to kill them because there was no other option, and their enemies would sooner or later come back to fight them again, with stronger more determined forces? Or did they make peace with their enemies so that there was no need for retaliation on either side, and how did they accomplish this? I can try to imagine what people long ago would have considered before either agreeing to enslave their enemies or to make peace with them. Even the environmental conditions, whether there was food enough for different tribes or nations (as in American Indian and Canadian native societies long ago, different “nations” or “clans” and “tribes” often differed or competed for food and grazing land, etc) It was probably a matter of survival that they didn’t take slaves but probably killed most of their enemies; maybe they also killed most of the women and children, which is the popular idea we have of turmoil in the “old west” between Indians and white people, and what occurred between many different native Indian groups (tribes or nations).

I definitely have no arguments (which justify) (for) slavery today (in most places) though, it is just that from a purely historical and anthropological perspective I can understand it much better than if I were to merely judge people - whether ancient or modern (modern in the sense that they exist today).

We don’t equate slavery of women with polygamy. It isn’t true that all people agree that polygamy is “abhorrent”, that is your own feeling and belief. Many women today accept polygamy, and I know some. They are happy as co-wives and I have even sat and visited with them, and gone camping with women who were co-wives. Something “abhorrent” would be unnatural, and polygamy isn’t unnatural, despite your dislike of it. You come from a Western or Christian background, so it seems strange and even a hateful practice, but that is your personal feeling and belief, others do not and shouldn’t have to live life exactly as you do, nor accept your personal likes and dislikes as their own; where is the freedom of choice which Westerners and Europeans always speak about? Where is the sincerity and humility? You say your best friend committed adultery and you forgive that, but you cannot understand why some societies and people prefer marriage (which is often a religious covenant and very serious and entered with necessary forethought and care.) There are also times when women prefer their husband to have another wife, whether you can find this even remotely possible or not. The Prophet taught that women and men should take care of their bodies’ cleanliness, to shower after sexual intercourse and to respect lovemaking as a God-given right for both spouses to enjoy, to fulfill their natural desires. Polygamy, like all marriage isn’t something dirty which brings to mind images of sexual perversion or abuse. Many in the west will shake their heads at Muslims or other polygamous groups, but easily fall into adultery, fornication, homosexuality, prostitution, orgies, wife swapping and other sinful, hateful, dangerous or perverted acts. Please don’t talk down to me, it is very annoying. You are not “forceful” you are a very biased individual, as you say “biased”. At times, you contradict yourself.



When you say Muslims have "progressed" do you mean that they have become morally superior to the Quran?

“No” they are not superior in their faith, general ideas, beliefs or actions to the early Muslims nor do they have any other teaching or belief system which is superior to the Qur’an; their “progress” is the same progress which most nations and tribes have gone through, e.g. they have learned to give others their due rights, to respect individuality, to be patient in adversity, to live side by side with others in peace, they follow the laws of the land whether founded on religious or secular laws (e.g. in the GCC there are Islamic family courts, and also secular courts, because not all residents use the Islamic courts and also, secular laws don’t necessarily contradict most of the sharia(Islamic law) such as laws against stealing, drugs, trafficking, rape, physical assault, littering, disrupting the peace, violent protest, etc.) There has been scientific progress, much of it long ago, in the Muslim lands, and now the Ummah (community) is in a state of limbo, with little developments (in science or humanities) for a long time, but there is some signs of small (and also bigger) movements to “environmental protection” as you asked, and other areas of development, social welfare, women’s rights, health and education, which is an ongoing concern, since schools opened in most GCC countries in the 1920’s or so. Christian communities also spread to the GCC from neighboring countries (their homes) and have grown and have their own community and activities. I mention also the support of community groups, such as the Indian groups or the Irish expatriates for their support of the King’s handling of the crisis during the “Arab spring” and protests which turned violent in Bahrain due to the extremism of some of the local people.

The rights of others are an ongoing question, which unlike slavery is always in some state of flux, while slavery has diminished in numbers for centuries. Human rights continues to be an area of concern or interest in general; most countries have some laws which some of the people are in contest with e.g. they want changes to them. It is natural to have conflicts within society as well as with other nations. The important thing to keep in mind is to respect others right to self-determination, that some societies will develop more slowly, and the world has a restricted right to intervene, especially considering that there is a lot of power in the hands of a few. Good should be clear from evil, if nations overstep the clear limits, as defined by modern laws in respect to human rights, then something has to be done; what is done depends on factors (all of which I’m not completely familiar with as a non-expert); the ability for the nation to comply, the situation on the ground, and any number of other considerations. Is it right to immediately invade a country because there is a suspicion that it has nuclear weapons? Is it okay to bomb civilian populations to root out terrorists in another country, considering that the terrorists are far away and no immediate danger? If there are signs or suspicious movements, when and where do you attack the enemy? Etc.

Besides international terrorism, what other significant problems are there, and why does terrorism get the most attention? There is child labor, can we tackle that question as nations and how do we get nations or companies which break the law, to comply with the modern and acceptable ideas of what is permissible, as far as children and work? What about the minimum wage? Do we dictate to other countries what the minimum wage should be, or is that a completely internal matter? How can nations do better to eradicate drugs trafficking and human trafficking? Why did the USA’s “war on drugs” fail? These are just a few of the very important issues nations need to think harder about and come up with solutions. If in an age when slavery was common, yet people began to see it as an evil, especially if racism or sexism was involved, why blame Muhammad, pbuh, for the timing? It is the way the world is; some people, merely due to the environment and their geographical position, e.g. the Sahara or Antarctica might have different ideas of what is right and wrong - maybe it is too hot and dry or too cold and wet to think about anything but how one will find food for the day or mend his house? Modern nations have a much greater responsibility to the rest of the world than did the earlier peoples and nations.(This is the answer to why God left in place a system which later on (much later, in America, they adopted slavery when there wasn't any on the entire continent; there was war and massacres, but no slavery)would be "irrelevant"; slavery hardly exists today, in practise and numbers; of seven billion ppl how many are slaves?  It is amazing that modern men or women who sit for hours in front of their entertainment centers can lob twenty questions about why a man 14 centuries ago didn’t eradicate slavery or amend marriage laws (actually, in some respects, he did both) and completely forbid it forever (because he was doing what God told him to) and yet, they have no qualms about buying coffee from Starbucks and equipment from Caterpillar. You’ve had since world war II to do something about Israel’s’ racism in the Middle East, but what have you done and how long will it take before you realize something has to be done? You want a deity who wants a relationship with you, will come down? God dictates the relationship; He sent a book, which you refuse to examine open-mindedly despite the proofs it contains, then you also reject God even though you once believed, merely because people changed the contents of the book you had e.g. the Bible, or because people are not living up to the dictates of their religion? You are like a child who doesn’t know how to think for himself and ask why about everything; try to formulate some theories of your own that can explain why slavery was or wasn’t abolished forever, 1400 years ago, or something logical (not emotional) about why men are or are not permitted to marry more than one wife. If people have anything new or original to bring to the table, I’ll gladly examine it, as for old prejudices and racist rants, I’m not going to entertain such questions. People can see my videos, comments and read the blog. If you have a question, be considerate of the wording and tone of your question/message or I will ignore it. – I admit sometimes I’m tempted not to ignore such questions, but it is better if I do.

I realize quite well and often vividly (my imagination is good) how people react to Islam’s set of laws, Quranic statement, historical events, and present day Muslims, including the extremism, but I don’t think people who believe differently from Muslims have to change. They have the right and free will, which Allah gave them, to do as they like and believe as they believe. But that doesn’t change my belief that everyone on this earth has the ability to know God/Allah, and that they just have to use their minds and listen to their hearts. That can be qualified; if their minds are closed and their hearts are full of enmity towards Muslims, so that they don’t want to listen, and refuse knowledge, then it is their own fault. I don’t call that Allah’s will - that is their own determination to reject Islam and the Quran. They “will themselves” to reject God, He is always open to their belief in Him. If they just pray for guidance He will definitely guide them, but they shouldn’t pray asking Him to guide them to something which they will only agree with for a little while, because in the future, they will likely figure out (if that isn’t what Allah sent - the guidance He expects all people to follow, not something that claims to be from Him, but is falsehood), and then they won’t find what Allah has destined for them not to find (because they asked for something and prayed for something which He didn’t send). Pray only to be guided to the truth, not a specific religion (other than Islam, which is the truth; though you don’t have to call it by name, you can if you want to) People often are certain that what they believe is the truth, but “there is only one truth” – for certain, one is truly astray when one believes in a falsehood, only a claim to truth.







Nonmuslims complain about immigration today, but there was a time, we vividly imagine it in books like Roots, when the west with Europe and the Arabs earned wealth by transporting and selling black people as slaves to the Americas; literally forcing them to go there, out of complete disregard for their wishes, or even families. They were, before that, free and made slaves. This is one of the practices of old which Islam prohibited – Muhammad, pbuh, said, “………………[editing] ….”


(I must apologize here for not providing a proper quote, it is just that I have many books, but don't know where the hadith/saying I am looking for can be found, if any Muslims (or even non-Muslim) reader can help I would really appreciate it, until I find it I am searching. [I had previously asked for help from an Islamic website, but they turned me down, becasue they only help people (non-Muslims) with dawa; I thought, I'm kind of qualified for their help, but they denied me, oh well...] I will take a break after the next Post, then I will have time to fix some of the missing references or indirect quotes, which need to be direct quotes, etc.(despite the previous setback, I have now found a female scholar willing to help me with islamic knowledge, and references, etc.)   Unfortunately too, I can't do much better as far as the look of the blog, no expertise there!)

DD





Monday, April 8, 2013

Islam for dummies - Islam, the Prophet, slavery, apostasy..

This post begins with some refutations of what Robert Spencer had said in a debate. The rest will deal with the issues of slavery, apostasy, and the position of women, female captives, etc.

Prophet Muhammad – Proofs regards clothing and bathing

“Narrated Zaid bin Thabit [RA]: The Prophet [SAWS] stripped to put on his Ihram and bathed.”

(Reported by At-Tirmidhi reported and graded it Hasan.)

One asks, how did Zaid know that the Prophet had stripped? Well, because he had taken a bath, one assumes he would have stripped; but also, we read in other hadiths, that the Prophet, would have water poured by a water carrier from behind a screen, therefore the other person, who would pour the water would not see him, but pour water from above for him. This was sometimes the manner in which he would take a bath, as might happen when he travelled during wars. Other times he would take handfuls of water from a bathtub, when at home, which is what some hadiths describe, as his wife Aisha or others of his wives had told, and which sayings were narrated by Aisha or others of the companions, from her or other of Muhammad’s wives. E.g. Um Salama.

“Narrated ‘Aisha [RA]: I used to perfume Allah’s Messenger {SAWS] for his Ihram before he put on the Ihram, and when he put off the ihram, before he circumambulated the Sacred House (Ka’aba).”

(Agreed upon)

“Narrated ‘Uthman bin ‘Affan [RA]: Allah’s Messenger [SAWS] said: ‘One who is in the state of Ihram should not marry, or give someone in marriage or make a proposal.’”

(Reported by Muslim)

About the two preceding hadiths one can mention, regarding the Hajj or Umrah, that marriage contract is not permissible in the state of holy pilgrimage, but is okay after that, once its rights have been fulfilled. Also, Aisha or any wife of the Prophet would be the only ones permitted to perfume the body of the Messenger of Allah, besides himself perfuming his own body. In the above hadith, he required himself and others, according to the rules of pilgrimage, to use perfume before putting on the ihram (cloth for men, or clean clothing for women). Women should not wear perfume however they may bathe whenever they like but with non-perfume soap. Always the intention to perform the pilgrimage is made after wearing one’s ihram cloth or clothing, and not before that. Similarly, the final circumambulation of the Ka’aba called (the farewell) Tawaf (al-ifidhah), is done before leaving Mecca, and should be the final act before leaving the holy city, therefore perfuming one’s body again(for men only) is done before making the farewell Tawaf, and is one of the Sunnah of the Prophet, SAWS, after Hajj/Umrah is complete.

“Narrated Ibn ‘Umar [RA]: He (ibn ‘Umar [RA]) never used to come to Makka without spending the night at Dhi-Tuwa till morning after which he would bathe. He used to say that the Prophet [SAWS] was accustomed to do that.”

(Agreed upon)

This shows that Ibn Umar and others knew about the custom of the Prophet to take a bath after spending the night at Dhi-Tuwa. They knew he would ask for water for a bath to be drawn or for water and so on and that he would use something as a screen, so that he would be in private during his bath. It wasn’t necessary for any of them to actually see the bath.

The prophet, SAWS would explain how he would perform ghusl (post sex bath) and others would see him make the wudhu, the purification for prayers or reading Qur’an done when not requiring a full bath. In other words, no one ever saw him without clothing or covering, except his wives.

Proofs of Muhammad’s good character:

Quote the hadiths, e.g. specifically, the building of the Ka’aba, (thereafter) the prophet was never seen without clothing or a cover, and he was 35 yrs. old at the time, and later after five years received his commission as a holy Prophet of Allah.

Allah’s messenger said, “He who imitates any people is one of them.”

(Abu Da’ud reported it; Ibn Hibban graded it Sahih (sound)).

This means, that the Prophet didn’t imitate non-believers, either in their religion or their customs which they were used to, such as eating with both hands at meals, or not seeking the blessing of Allah, ta’ala, by “Bismillah” before eating, or not eating with the right hand only and drinking with the right hand only, or other examples of practices sanctioned in Islam.

He (SAWS) also didn’t imitate them in their use of talismans for protection, or imitate their superstitious customs. He didn’t fear except Allah, SWT.

He also didn’t used to wear Saffron colored clothing like other people used to, because it is forbidden for Muslim men. Also, he used not to uncover his body in front of other men, as is sometimes done when one takes a bath in a public shower, such as places used by non-believers as public bathing areas, or during sporting activities or at the beaches, where normally, non-believer men do not cover the area required by Islamic dress code (navel to the knees, for men)

Therefore, it is not believable that the Prophet SAWS was seen without proper clothing while riding an animal, as some people said. Allah knows best. Muslim men like all others in Arabia, were accustomed to riding on horseback and on camels, or donkeys, and didn’t have this problem which Morey claims happened, when he says, the Prophet became ‘uncovered’ or ‘exposed’.

The decisive statement which shows that no one saw the Prophet without clothing or a covering (specifically his sexual organ) - which follows; as per some events during reconstruction of the holy Ka’aba.

The Shrouding of Allah’s Messenger

‘Al-Bukhari reported on the authority of Jabir bin ‘Abdullah [RA], that he said: “While the people were rebuilding Al-Ka’aba, the Prophet Muhammad, SAWS, went with ‘Abbas to carry some stones. ‘Abbas said: “Put your loincloth round your neck to protect you from the stones.” (As he did that) the Prophet, [SAWS], fell to the ground and his eyes turned skyward. Later on, he woke up and shouted: “My loincloth…my loincloth.” He wrapped himself in his loincloth.’ In another report: “His loins were never seen afterwards.”’ (Page 82, al-Mubarakpuri)

This event in which the Prophet lay prostrate and the reclamation of the Ka’aba after it had been partly destroyed due to heavy flooding coincided; the age of Muhammad was 35 years, and it occurred five years prior to his receiving the mantle of Prophethood. He was so distressed that he never uncovered his private area thereafter, even though it was considered nothing in those days, in the Pagan-dominated city of Mecca. (Ibid)

An example of the respect with which people held the Prophet and how they regarded his modesty as sacrosanct, was when the Muslims closest to him prepared the burial shroud of the Messenger of Allah, and had wondered what to do regarding the washing and shrouding of the Prophet, and they decided not to remove the Prophet’s clothes but to wash and bury him while his clothes were on him.

There is another hadith which is relevant to the above discussion:

“Narrated ‘Abdullah bin ‘Amr (RA): Allah’s Messenger [SAWS] used to say: ‘O Allah, I seek refuge in You from being heavily in debt, from being overpowered by enemies, and the gloating of enemies (at an evil I am afflicted with).’”

It is true that there were occasions when the Prophet was afflicted by harm and the enemies of the Muslims, of the Prophet and of God, gloated. This happened when his sons all died, and on other occasions, such as when his call was rejected by the people early in his dawa mission.

“Reviling a Muslim is disobedience to Allah and fighting him is kufr”.

Thus, even when (the hypocrite) a blind man, reviled the Prophet and flung clods of dirt or flung earth at the holy Prophet and his companions, or threw dust above their heads, the Prophet did not do anything to him. He told the followers to leave that man alone, for he was old and blind, and he was helpless. It is not required to kill apostates who do not fight or injure the Muslims (e.g. physically hurt or torture, or kill the Muslims). Even the hadith explains that to fight a Muslim or oppose the Muslims is disbelief (kufr), but doesn’t specify a punishment, in this case. E.g. there is a punishment for apostates, but it doesn’t have to be carried out unless the apostate is fighting the Muslims. If he is not fighting them, it is better not to take revenge on him for less than fighting (joining a battle against them or killing of Muslims).

Spencer alleges wrongly:

The verse which states the purpose of jihad (or fighting non-believers) follows,

“Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of your religion…”

(Sura 60, ayah, 9, the Quran)

That the Muslims should make allies or have peace with certain of them (because of their fighting the Muslims e.g. in a war or in an ambush, and so forth) is thus forbidden.

See, Sura 3, Verses 193 – 194,

“Lord, those whom you condemn to the Fire You have surely brought to disgrace. Wrongdoers will have no supporters.”

“Lord, we have heard a caller calling to the true faith saying, “Believe in your Lord and we believed. Lord forgive us our sins and remove from us our bad deeds and make us die with the virtuous.”

Success mentioned about the events at Tabuk (see p. 503, al-Mubarakpuri) often called the final battle of the Prophet, SAWS.

Other examples of apostates:

- ‘Ubaidullah bin Jahsh was a famous person who apostatized and became a Christian. His wife stood fast to her religion and refused to convert with him. When ‘Ubaidullah died in Abyssinia, Allah’s Messenger asked ‘Amr bin Umaiyah to go with a letter to the Negus, the King of Ethiopia, and asked him for Umm Habibah’s hand, as he was the ruler of that land and was permitted to give her away. The Negus agreed and sent her to the Prophet in the company of another person (probably a group of people with them, as she would not have been permitted to travel alone with a non-Mahram man). Allah knows best. This is from page 564 of the book The Sealed Nectar by al-Mubarakpuri, from which I have extensively quoted. We see that a well-known and recognized person was not killed merely for apostasy, and while he lived amongst the community of Muslims in Abyssinia; if the Muslims had been treacherous they would not have hesitated to kill the apostate, but instead they let him be. There was no reason to kill a person merely for apostasy, and in the land of the peaceful Christian King who had given the Muslims asylum. Therefore, we see that peace was possible and that one apostate was of no consequence or concern, in fact, they did not force anyone to keep to Islam, the attitude being that even if the hypocrites ran away to the non-Muslims the Muslims would not have gone after them, as evidenced by the treaty between Muhammad, and the other Arab tribes, at al-Hudaibiya; the Muslims would return any runaway slaves to the non-Muslims, but would not ask for the return of their own slaves, because if they were Muslims, also , and had run away, that would prove their hypocrisy and such people’s faith was not required; they would essentially have been more a threat to the Muslims (in terms of morale and security) than if they were permitted to leave. I haven’t found how many or if any of the Muslims’ slaves (if Muslim) ever ran away (from the Muslims) to their people or to the pagans e.g. the non-Muslims with whom the Muslims had the aforementioned treaty.

Examples of Treachery:

As Nadir Ahmed eloquently pointed out, the non-believers (the Quraish and other Pagan Arabs, or Jews) were used to plotting against the Muslims, hiding their hypocrisy and breaking their oaths or covenants they had made with the Prophet, SAWS.

1) 700 Jews in Medina who were adept at fighting (they were warriors and bragged about their fighting skills and mocked the Muslims’ fighting skills) who broke their covenant with the Muslims. (revise – add direct quote)

2) The man who was sought (who took refuge in the Ka’aba) and was killed due to his stealing the zakat money, killing a Muslim and because he had apostatized and then fled to Mecca after the aforementioned crimes. The Prophet ordered him killed though he hung onto the curtain of the Ka’aba and tried to seek refuge there. He was a known criminal and murderer as well as an apostate. (revise - reference)

3) The men (a group of about 7) who went to the shepherd and killed him and crucified him with nails, and gouged out his eyes, were killed in the same way they had killed the shepherd and they were crucified. (revise – reference)

4) The treachery and assassination attempt of the Prophet by the 12 hypocrites; after the win at Tabuk, as he returned to Medina with only ‘Ammar and Hudhaifah bin Al-Yaman, who was driving the camel. About this event, Allah revealed, “And they resolved that (plot to murder Prophet Muhammad, SAWS) which they were unable to carry out.” (Ch:9, V:74)

(Page 505, al-Mubarakpuri)

Some of the above examples already are elsewhere in my blog, so I’ll try to soon find the direct quotes or add links at the bottom of the page.

Condition of slave women of the Prophet:

It is interesting to note, that in addition to eleven wives, the Prophet had two slave women and at least a male slave, Allah knows best. At his death he owned one slave, only. Some traditions mention that he had a male slave who was released before his death. Other traditions tell about other slaves he had released, most noteably his freed slave Zaid ibn Haritha, one of the Sahabah and one who was among the ten informed of his guarantee of Paradise.

One might think that this was common, however, it was Allah’s instructions to the Prophet that he marry all eleven of these wives, and two only died before his death; they were his first wife of twenty-five years (to whom he had been monogamous) and his wife Zainab umm ul masakeen.

We know in the Bible, Solaiman, AS, was said to have many concubines, or Muslims would say ‘slave women’; it is questionable however, and the Prophets of Allah in any case were the best of people. We know that Solaiman, in the Qur’an asked Allah for an earthly Kingdom which would never have any rival, therefore when the Prophet Muhammad was given the choice between an earthly Kingdom, or the position and title of a Prophet and Messenger, he remembered the dua (supplication) of Solaiman (for a Kingdom which would be unrivaled by other people) so he chose to remain the Prophet and Messenger of Allah ( not to become a "Prophet King" like Solaiman, AS).

Two wives who Muhammad, pbuh, did not consummate marriage with and divorced were Al-Jauniyah, from Kindah and one from Bani Kilab tribe. (P. 564, al-Mubarakpuri)

It would have been distressing to any woman in those days to be divorced, but especially from the foremost man amongst the men of Arabia.

The Prophet offered all of his wives gifts, and in case he divorced any of them, they were compensated. He only ever divorced the two women, one who had said, “I seek Allah’s protection from you”; some women advised the bride to say it; she then did, believing that would make her more desirable to him when in fact the opposite effect (e.g. divorce) resulted. The other woman had a skin disease like vertigo. (Both accounts appear in the hadiths).

The Prophet also would not refuse a gift; two women were bondwomen given to him as gifts.

In the Qur’an, Sarah gives her slave girl, a gift from the Pharaoh who admired her good character, to the Prophet Abraham, AS, (her husband). This was Hajar who became the mother of his son Ishmael, which caused Sarah to become jealous of Hajar.

One slave woman was a gift from his wife Zaynab bint Jahsh (his cousin) and the other was a gift from the king of Egypt, Al-Muqawqis (that was Maria the Copt, who gave birth to his son Ibrahim, who died as a child. If he had refused these women, that would have been disrespectful, in the custom and opinion of the people then, and also, there was nothing to prevent him according to the correct Islamic law, which permitted relations with slave women. (P. 564, 565, Ibid)

The number of his slave women were two – the other two women who were captives, one being “Rehanah bint Zaid bin ‘Amr bin Khanafah bin Sham’un (An Nadriyah or Quraiziyah) and the other was named Jamilah. (P. 565, Ibid) According to custom, he must have released them and then married them, because “war prisoners” are not “slaves” (someone born into slavery, or someone whom other people, usually before Islam, had captured and made a slave). A specific hadith definitely disliked or discouraged, if not completely forbidding slavery, which says that the man (person) who trades in slavery is a bad person (revising – for exact wording of the Prophet, pbuh. It is one of the Sahih traditions.)

At his death, these two were free - Mariyah al Copt, because she was Umm Walid (a woman becomes free after her husband’s death because she had a child for him), and no other men were permitted to marry the wives of the Prophet of Allah, and it is not mentioned if this also meant a slave woman who had not born him offspring. It is also possible that he had freed them before his death. It’s possible he had one slave at the time of his death according to some hadiths; probably not a slave woman, but a male slave. (Revising; checking).

By all accounts, the Prophet, SAWS, was not interested extending his right to more and more women to satisfy human (“carnal”) desires, but rather his objectives were purely motivated by higher goals e.g. in forging good relations with the people who he had dealings with, whether kings or tribal leaders and those with whom he shared a special relationship due to marriage (in-laws). Most of his wives were past child-bearing age. His second wife was an older woman equal in age to the Prophet, or in her 50s. As earlier stated, he had only two slave women, both gifted to him, whom were later freed as per the Islamic custom. Some say he married another of his slave women, but this isn't a strong opinion.

In one case, his marriage to Juwairiyah resulted in the freedom from captivity (a condition not equal to slavery, but which would usually result in some kind of negotiations to free them; such as ransom) of 100 of her tribes-people, by the Muslims in celebration of the Prophet’s marriage to her, and to honor them. Due to this spontaneous act of generosity, they all later accepted Islam. (P. 566, Ibid) (Similarly, Safiyah was married to the Prophet; the same woman who the evangelical Robert Spencer accuses the Prophet of raping after the battle). By all accounts she (May Allah be pleased with her) was one of the most honored and respected of women in Arabia at that time, and was more than willing to become the wife of Muhammad, SAWS. There is no evidence to the contrary, as she willingly went with the Prophet, as Nadir Ahmed clearly shows in one of the debates with Robert Spencer. Wherefore people are too blind to accept this argument doesn’t change the facts. (If you quote hadiths, then be thorough about it, or don’t do it at all). Spencer obviously lies to further an agenda, which is why he rarely ‘leaves the script’. He does admit in one debate that Muslims are not permitted to rape their wives. (Provide a video link – revise later)

As I’ve stated many times, if the Muslims or the Prophet had ever mistreated women, then they would in no way have inclined towards Islam, nor would have the Arab nations or tribes have been inclined in any way. Therefore, it is obvious that such crimes never took place (as rape), and as noted by the scholars - Islam didn’t permit the Muslim warriors to marry women or to have intercourse with them upon capture - as per the rules of war (practiced by Muslims only) the divorce of these women befell and after one menstrual period had passed (and when they had purified themselves) as only then a marriage could take place - whereas these women would otherwise have been kept in limbo, neither able to satisfy their own desires lawfully, nor being able to marry by the permission of the Muslim ruler, if they would not have been legally permitted as per the Islamic ruling regarding captives (also a ruling for slaves existed, as a separate issue, they were able to marry, or to enjoy monogamous sex with one man, permitting no harm was done to them, or they didn’t engage in affairs).

Alternatively, I am told that the period of time required to pass before the Muslims to marry the captives would be three months, perhaps this is closer to the truth, I honestly don’t know. It might be, so that the families of these captives would have more time to negotiate a release for them, and to return them to their family or husbands (if they desired), otherwise they could choose to remain with the Muslims. It happened that some women who declared their Islam came alone to Medina, and the Qur’an speaks about this event, saying to question the women e.g. make sure that they really want to be Muslims, not just saying that for some other reason (one never knows if someone is just escaping other problems and believes Muslims will only help them if they accept Islam.)It is very important that the pagan women who accept Islam should be truthful (as men also) because it is forbidden for Muslims to marry non-believers, specifically those who are not from the category of “People of the Book” whom Muslims are permitted to marry.

Treatment and release of Captives

At one time, after a battle and the capture of some men, the Muslims tied them to the pillars of the masjid (house of worship); later they began to release them after they had promised to release anyone who had taught three illiterate Muslims to read. I mentioned that Fadel Solaiman has researched and made some CDs on the subject of Islam, e.g. Jihad on Terrorism, and others before and since. He also is a well-known speaker on the international (Islamic) circuit and gives workshops on how to preach Islam. I recommend anyone to buy his CDs online, as they are well worth the money. He has researched and compiled evidence which appear in his work (CDs, videos).Some of these materials are available free online, specifically he has his own online channel, or YT (I will provide the link(s), as well as where to purchase the CDs because I believe they are very beneficial to truth-seekers).

The Problem of Slavery

In one arbitration case to the Prophet, a man was told to sell his slave woman “even if for a hair rope”, because she was promiscuous, so it isn’t like many people believe, that the women in the early days of Islamic era were kept in complete bondage, in chains or that they didn’t experience some semblance of normality, as defined by the times (in which they lived). Slaves were not to be harshly treated in any case. It is true that today, this issue receives a lot of attention because Islam didn’t outright prohibit slavery. But if one studies the Islamic history with an open mind, one can easily see that Islam encouraged the freeing of slaves, and only permitted Muslims to keep slaves because the enemies also kept Muslims as slaves. It is widely believed by modern Muslims that slavery would be undesirable and not completely Islamic; this is the view supported by the saying of the Prophet, SAWS, “?” (Revising – find direct quote - anyway, this is 180 degrees from the sayings of the non-Muslims’ claim e.g. that Islam is the major reason that people practiced slavery or traded slaves.

This means that to return to the former practices of the ancient people with regards to slavery is greatly discouraged and would mean a step backwards, as per the saying and practice of the Prophet of peace, Muhammad, Allah’s peace and blessings be unto his Messenger, who encouraged and practiced emancipation, and there is no need for more discussion of the topic, in my humble opinion. (Except to revise, I’m done).

Marry free women, or slave women

The final point I want to make is that the Quran also taught that it would be better for men to marry slave women than to marry orphans, because one would like to marry orphans when they had an inheritance, but not if they didn’t have an inheritance. Therefore, to be just to the orphans, men were either to marry the mothers of these girls, or if no mother, then slave women of their choosing (might mean slave women or captives e.g. “those right hands possess”)

How do we know what slave women thought, or if they protested their condition?

Simply, it was the condition of women at the time, when wars were fought and a surplus of women without husbands or guardians emerged. This is not a condition which Islam forced on these women, but it was the natural consequence of the battles that took place almost constantly, between non-Muslims. It wasn’t Muslims and Islam which forced women into this position, it was the position they had always been forced into; how could the Muslims change such an ingrained and socially acceptable situation unilaterally?; these slaves, and their children, who automatically became slaves were there before Islam, and the non-believers used to continue to capture free men and women, sometimes through defeating their enemies or sometimes through attacks on (innocent or weak) people. Similarly, other problems which non-believers were responsible for were the attacks on caravans, highway robbery and slave trading which occurred separate from wars. It is easy to admit that logically, there would have been no slave trade later on (or the mass scale of it) if the Christians (e.g. Americans and Europeans) didn’t demand slaves (the law of “supply and demand”), providing the impetus to some unscrupulous men; Muslims or European colonizers in Africa, to begin a wave of kidnapping and enslaving mostly free African (black natives of Africa). A famous captured Muslim was the Prince Abdu Rahman, an African, who was captured and finally received his freedom much later, after spending many years as a slave in America. A great portion of his life, and all his family wealth and prestige had been stolen from him during the Africa to West slave trade, by the mere act of the wicked traders who had seen the prince alone, enjoying a peaceful walk on the beach. It is very cruel but a lesson to all, that such stories later have come to light, and the lessons we garner which might have been buried and lost forever, had someone with an earnest desire to learn the truth not done the proper research and publication. God bless such people and their efforts, and may they bear continuous fruit.

(Provide link for video about the former slave Prince Abdu rahman)

In Muslim countries, one would argue that slave men were worse off than slave women; this is because they needed the express permission of their owner(s) to marry. If none was given, they couldn’t marry; a state much more difficult for a man than a woman, even in those days.

But as is obvious, and the reason for the permissibility of Muslim men taking “slave women” as concubines, women also had the natural desire for men, which didn’t mean they were necessarily happy with their position, but they certainly full understood their position; it was the lot of women everywhere.

Muslims couldn’t all afford to marry a free woman that is clear. Whereas the meaning of slavery is that the person is socially a lower-class citizen, even if accepting Islam during bondage; and the distribution of the slaves and other war booty followed and gave the poorer Muslims a share of the spoils. Since these non-Muslim people were in bondage, and were therefore not equally responsible for their crimes as free men and women, even their sexually promiscuous behavior would be to a degree less severely punished. (It would not been fitting for a Muslim slave to commit sexual crimes, but it probably wasn’t completely unknown). Thus the punishment for them (all slaves) would have been half e.g. 20 or 40 stripes. If they were weak they would receive less than others, as well.

Also, as mentioned, the female captives constituted a greater problem; where as many non-Muslim men would have died in battles or been injured or maimed, they would have predeceased the women and children (including girls old enough to marry e.g. orphans) or they would have not been able to defend them, thus the surplus of (free women) during wars (captives, which fell to the victors). The vast majority must have been women and children, or families without a head. It was even more distressing for them because of their former status, and if they were wealthy, their wealth became the property of the victors and left them penniless.

This seems to be the reason that Muslim men (who were poor, or desired marriage) would marry slave women as opposed to orphans, and especially if orphans were wealthy (speaking about the Muslim girls in particular) they wouldn’t have needed to marry young or out of desperation, and they had inheritance rights and maintenance rights (by any male relatives, if present).

Slaves were permitted to marry. Barira, RA, married and then later, Aisha, RA, freed her from bondage of ‘her people’, by buying her freedom for her, on the condition (in Islam) that she would inherit from Barira. (Barira then received a divorce from her husband, still a slave.) The people didn’t want to allow Aisha, RA, and claimed that they had more right to Barira’s inheritance, but the Prophet ruled that Allah, Subhanahu, stipulates that the one who ransoms the slave inherits. The adopted son of the Prophet had been a former slave, before he married Zaynab bin Jahsh, the Prophet’s cousin, whom he later divorced. She felt that he was not good enough for her, or that is what was always implied in the hadiths, God knows best.

Slavery is “unfair”

This highlights how slavery was indeed a position of a recognized unnatural, but common feature of ancient life, which was rejected by the human soul as “unfair” or “ill luck” or indeed a catastrophe. Eventually, the speed with which Islam began to put a dent in the practice, it also illuminated for the people the real position of humans in the earthy life as a temporary abode, which we want to leave, much like a prison, and that in our core we love to be free; we are all born free and bondage is one of the cruelest conditions which wars and unjust practices (of the period of ignorance) impose (d) on the weak or the beaten.

Does the world today recognize that imprisonment and torture of POWs is just as heinous and unfair as the past position of slaves? The right of many governments to “illegal search and seizure” as it’s called by the wide public, such as permitted under the Patriot Act, or by laws passed in the wake of the destruction of the WTC buildings early in September 2001. Prison, without trial, and other practices are just as inhumane and cruel as slavery ever was. It’s true that in the past, the ancient people at least understood that they were always at risk of becoming slaves or losing their families, and life was very harsh then; but today’s men (as most POWs are men, but a few women have also been imprisoned as POWs or detained as suspected terrorists around the globe) are largely in shock, as the majority of people are also shocked. The modern world cannot begin to understand (or also justify) treatment which is cruel and inhumane or torture.

Non-Muslim favorable opinion:


The former justice of the Hague, C G Weeramantry writes, “The fact that so many Islamic nations have of their own free will subscribed to the objective of the United Nations is also testimony to this desire for coexistence on a footing of equality rather than any desire for the imposition of its ideology upon others.” (P.163,Islamic Jurisprudence; An International Perspective, 1998).

(From the)Prophet’s farewell speech:

“You will go back to be resurrected after death to your Lord. There you will be accounted for your deeds. So, do not turn into people who go astray and kill one another.”

(And)

“Have I not delivered the Message of my Lord?” “Yes, you have.” They said. “O Allah! Bear witness! Let him that is present convey it to him who is absent. For, to whom the Message is conveyed may be having more understanding of it than the audience,” he said. (Sahih al-Bukhari 1/234)